Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 19:54:24 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard <jkh@ixsystems.com> To: Doug Rabson <dfr@rabson.org> Cc: freebsd-fs <freebsd-fs@freebsd.org>, Alexander Motin <mav@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: pNFS server Plan B Message-ID: <74CD7EB1-1656-4511-8B63-5C4401D1BB8D@ixsystems.com> In-Reply-To: <CACA0VUibM1giAkJdNNkn1_m8QqqLzdNC86hFhRxMmY7gMb1nvg@mail.gmail.com> References: <1524639039.147096032.1465856925174.JavaMail.zimbra@uoguelph.ca> <D20C793E-A2FD-49F3-AD88-7C2FED5E7715@ixsystems.com> <CACA0VUibM1giAkJdNNkn1_m8QqqLzdNC86hFhRxMmY7gMb1nvg@mail.gmail.com>
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OK, wow. This appears to have turned into something of a referendum on = NFS and, just based on Rick and Doug=E2=80=99s defense of pNFS, I also = think my commentary on that may have been misconstrued somewhat. So, let me just set the record straight by saying that I=E2=80=99m all = in favor of pNFS. It addresses a very definite need in the Enterprise = marketplace and gives FreeBSD yet another arrow in its quiver when it = comes to being =E2=80=9Ca player=E2=80=9D in that (ever-growing) arena. = The only point I was trying to make before was that if we could ALSO = address clustering in a more general way as part of providing a pNFS = solution, that would be great. I am not, however, the one writing the = code and if my comments were in any way discouraging to the folks that = are, I apologize and want to express my enthusiasm for it. If iXsystems = engineering resources can contribute in any way to moving this ball = forward, let me know and we=E2=80=99ll start doing so. On the more general point of =E2=80=9CNFS is hard, let=E2=80=99s go = shopping=E2=80=9D let me also say that it=E2=80=99s kind of important = not to conflate end-user targeted solutions with enterprise solutions. = Setting up a Kerberized NFSv4, for example, is not really designed to be = trivial to set up and if anyone is waiting for that to happen, they may = be waiting a very long time (like, forever). NFS and SMB are both = fairly simple technologies to use if you restrict yourself to using, = say, just 20% of their overall feature-sets. Once you add ACLs, = Directory Services, user/group and permissions mappings, and any of the = other more enterprise-centric features of these filesharing = technologies, however, things rapidly get more complicated and the = DevOps people who routinely play in these kinds of environments are = quite happy to have all those options available because they=E2=80=99re = not consumers operating in consumer environments. =20 Sun didn=E2=80=99t design NFS to be particularly consumer-centric, for = that matter, and if you think SMB is =E2=80=9Csimple=E2=80=9D because = you clicked Network on Windows Explorer one day and stuff just = automagically appeared, you should try operating it in a serious Windows = Enterprise environment (just flip through some of the SMB bugs in the = FreeNAS bug tracker - = https://bugs.freenas.org/projects/freenas/issues?utf8=3D=E2=9C=93&set_filt= er=3D1&f%5B%5D=3Dstatus_id&op%5Bstatus_id%5D=3D*&f%5B%5D=3Dcategory_id&op%= 5Bcategory_id%5D=3D%3D&v%5Bcategory_id%5D%5B%5D=3D57&f%5B%5D=3D&c%5B%5D=3D= tracker&c%5B%5D=3Dstatus&c%5B%5D=3Dpriority&c%5B%5D=3Dsubject&c%5B%5D=3Das= signed_to&c%5B%5D=3Dupdated_on&c%5B%5D=3Dfixed_version&group_by=3D - if = you want to see the kinds of problems users wrestle with all the time). Anyway, I=E2=80=99ll get off the soapbox now, I just wanted to dispute = the premise that =E2=80=9Csimple file sharing=E2=80=9D that is also = =E2=80=9Csecure file sharing=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cflexible file = sharing=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t really exist. The simplest end-user = oriented file sharing system I=E2=80=99ve used to date is probably AFP, = and Apple has been trying to kill it for years, probably because it = doesn=E2=80=99t have all those extra knobs and Kerberos / Directory = Services integration business users have been asking for (it=E2=80=99s = also not particularly industry standard). - Jordan
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