Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:00:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Henry Miller <hank@black-hole.com> To: jonathan michaels <jon@caamora.com.au> Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Q] How stable is FreeBSD 3.X ? Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990525224105.53663A-100000@daphne.bogus> In-Reply-To: <19990526133357.B20660@caamora.com.au>
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On Wed, 26 May 1999, jonathan michaels wrote:
> On Tue, May 25, 1999 at 02:57:09PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> > > You have said clearly what I tried to say...
> >
> > I still don't see a productive exchange taking place, and I blame you
> > and you specifically for making it non-productive by starting it with
> > lots of hair-pulling and "gosh, can it be that the great FreeBSD is
> > really a nasty piece of crap?" style statements.
>
> thats not the way it read to me .. but then i'm not an american
> english fan, nor is english my forst language.
English is a horrid language, but we are stuck with it.
> pity you bigots couldn't see that and have hounded yet another
> possibly excellent contributor out of teh freebsd community
> because of your arrogant, childish stupidity.
A possibly excellent contributor, or a possibel thorn in the side.
We do not know which, and probably never will. However when someone
starts demanding that anouther person working for free solve his problems,
we are forced to conclude that this person is a potential thorn in the
side.
> > I hope that this serves as an illustrative lesson for others, if
>
> sure, but not the ignorance you espouse so self-rightously.
>
> > nothing else. Be nice with your questions / feedback and you'll get a
>
> be nice with your responces .. it cuts both ways, and always
> read the context . not just with an eye spoiling for a fight,
> as you have so abley demonstrated int eh past, as now.
>
> > similar response. Be nasty and whiny and you'll get a face full of
> > sand and perhaps a warmer pair of pants than you're generally
> > comfortable in. Such exchanges make neither side look very good and
> > it's merely human nature for people to get upset when people try to
> > advance their causes ("listen to meeee!!") in such a manner.
>
> it was obvious from teh very start that the origianl authors
> first language was/is not american english .. maybe you should
> have taken that into concidration before launching into you
> usuall tirade and causing this whole episode of mass hysteria.
I thought the tirade was entireely about the orginial poster never giving
enough information, or putting forth enough effort for anyone to even
include he was telling the truth. I don't want to sound like I'm calling
him a lier, I don't know. All I know is why my specific system FreeBSD
works well, and never crashes. There are systems where it is not. If you
tell me that freeBSD is unstable with some obcure hardware installed, I
can buy that hardware, test it, find the problems, and fix them. IF you
have that obscure hardware and don't tell me, my efforts to find the
probelms are wasted. I work for free on FreeBSD, I don't like wasting my
times on your boring problem when I have more interesting things to do.
> > I'll close this thread by noting also, for the record, that Sergey has
> > not accomplished his goal here despite his previous assertions to the
> > contrary. He hasn't gotten the help he needed and, what's worse, he's
> > now on a bunch of people's shit lists so it's extremely unlikely, if
> > not downright impossible, that he'll get any useful help in the future
> > from any of us. I see Linux, and only Linux, in this man's future.
>
> this is a real loss for freebsd the sad thing is that we, more
> correctly you are causing this to happen more and more offten.
> what is this about amercan englsih that makes it so special
> that its purity needs to be protected so virulenlty by
> attacking so savagely every one who stray away from teh gold
> standard as espoused by the walnut creek elite cliched group
> mindset ?
You are combining two seperate things: Freedom to way what you want, and
the freedom to be heard. You have the first, but not the second. Freedom
cuts both ways, we have the rights to flame anyone (not that I saw this
happening, and I hope you don't see this as a flame as it isn't intenede
that way) back. I have noticed however that those who post enough
information that someone can duplicate their problems generally get help,
while those who claim there is a problem without telling me how I can do
it on my system do not.
> for a group how so adamnetly supports the freendon of speach
> and or expression you peoples sure do a lot of very active
> supporession of communications, especialy by and from people
> who are even marginally differnet from teh majorty of teh hurd.
Freedom of speach BTW, is a right in the Unitied States of America. This
right may or may not exist in other countries. THe UK for instance has
very different laws, yet you will be hard pressed to tell if someone is
from the UK or US by the way they write.
> every time i see a post liek this fom you and teh like minded
> sheep it makes it so much easier to not recomend freebsd, or
> more to the point to worry a lot about how the new freebsd user
> will be treated, more so if they don't speak near perfect
> american english.
English is not the issue. The issue is and was that if I can't prove
there is a problem I can't fix it.
> how long is it going to take you smallminded people to realise
> that the world doesnt stop at teh borders of mainland usa and
> or the world is a place full of diversity of culture and
> epression and that while 'englsih' might be teh labguage of
> computing not all are as equall skilled at its daily usages and
> cross border neuances.
WE already know that. I see large areas in freeBSD for support of
japanise in particular. Hebrew and chinese support also exists.
If we are small minded because we will not deal with someone who won't
tell us how to help him, so be it. There is nothing that we could do.
Indeed the fact that this thread has drawn so many comments disproves your
claim that we don't want to help. If we didn't want to help we would have
ignored it. We want to help, but there is no way to do so with what we
know so far.
> to use teh disaparagmtn yo and your chronies sned often enught
> to me .. 'get a life, jordan', or that other old chestnut, 'grow
> up'
While Jordan isn't perfect, he generally does a good job. He does not get
paid for doing what he does, yet he does it.
> take care .. you may just end up getting the kind of freebsd
> you are buiilding.
You know, the people who are building freeBSD have a specif problem to
solve. Most are overjoyed that their work is useful to others, and all
are happy to have other intelligent people to do some of the work. But
When it comes down to it, They are not paid money. All they get for their
effort is a system that works for their needs. And once it works for
their needs there is no reason they should care if it works for mine. Yet
is seems to me that they do anyway.
When I first started my current job we have an entire line of comptuers
that would crash everytime a certian person looked at them. 100%
repeatable, she would walk by, glance at it, and down it would go. There
is no casual relation between her stare, and the electronics. We never
told the devolpers about this problem because they would rightfully laugh
at us, yet it did exist for several months.
--
http://www.black-hole.com/users/henrymiller/
hank@black-hole.com
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