Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 22:05:42 -0800 From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> To: "Christopher Masto" <chris@netmonger.net> Cc: <multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: RE: 4.2R pcm/sbc AWE records noise, not audio: 16 bit bug?; gus broken? Message-ID: <000101c08da7$56ecfac0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> In-Reply-To: <20010202130809.D92405@netmonger.net>
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> -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Masto [mailto:chris@netmonger.net] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:08 AM > To: Ted Mittelstaedt > Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: 4.2R pcm/sbc AWE records noise, not audio: 16 bit bug?; gus > broken? > > > I have already apologized for my remarks and clarified my position, > but I'm foolishly going to respond to this personal attack. > > On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:15:49AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > Please don't get bothered by idiotic comments like that. > > Yes, calling me an idiot definately helps to improve the state of > FreeBSD's sound drivers. > Excuse me? I didn't call YOU an idiot. I called your COMMENTS idiotic. I accept that intelligent people can make stupid comments, I do it like anybody else. > > There are people in the world that you can give everything > > to, hell go set up the PC for them, and they are still going > > to be complaining. > > That may be true, but it's completely irrelevant. I don't remember irrelevant to a discussion of sound drivers, yes. Not to Cameron's feelings, though. His response wasn't about the technical aspects of the sound drivers, it was that your comments were thoughtless. > Cameron coming to my house to set up my PC. With your little > metaphor, in fact, in fact, he is the guy who came by uninvited and > trashed my working PC. (Which is why I dislike metaphors - I don't > feel this way at all and as I said in a previous message I am not > looking to bash or blame Cameron.) > > > Besides that, people love complaining about the things they like - > > That doesn't make any sense at all. You are acting like my statement > that there are problems with the sound drivers is an opinion. It's once again, no I wasn't talking about the state of the sound drivers, (except to say that many people are satisfied with them, such as myself) I accept that you have problems with them, and that I don't. > not an opinion that I can't record audio. It's not an opinion that it > plays static instead of music half the time. I don't understand why > you're so threatened by a statement of fact. If it worked correctly, > why would I complain? > I'll answer that - your complaining because you have a piece of hardware that isn't working quite properly, and you want it fixed, and it's human nature to complain about something that's broken. That's fine. What's NOT fine is that you did it in front of the guy that wrote the drivers, and it hurt his feelings because of the way you did it. If I feel threatened by anything it's my fear that the people actually producing code, like Cameron, are going to get disgusted with reading complaints and are going to go away. Then we will have lots of people complaining and nobody writing anything. > > if this guy really and truly thought that the sound support sucked > > he wouldn't be using FreeBSD at all. > > That is also nonsense. Have you considered that not being able to > record audio is far outweighed by all of the things I CAN do with > FreeBSD? Perhaps I have a substantial investment in learning to > configure, administer, and hack on FreeBSD? What do you mean, if I > "really and truly thought" - again, I am not making this up. Why > would I lie about the problems I'm having. (And I'm not the only one > - my message was in reply to someone else HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM.) > Instead of posting about problems your having and expecting someone to fix them, why not try fixing them yourself? If you don't want to write code, then do what I do - I replace the hardware with diferent hardware that DOES work. Perhaps you have a substantial investment...? What kind of question is that? Obviously you have an investment or you wouldn't be here. Certainly it must be a greater investment than the money in your soundcard, so it seems fairly plain that in a contest between jettisoning the investment in FreeBSD and jettisoning the sound card, that the sound card is going to lose. > > His problem is that he just likes complaining. > > You sure know a lot about me. My problem is that two years ago, I > could record, and what I was hoping was just another temporary problem > went on for months and months. I do not at all enjoy complaining. > Most of all, I enjoy not having anything to complain about. > > > For every one person out there complaining there are thousands, > > such as myself, who are perfectly satisfied with the sound > > support in FreeBSD > > Because it works for you. Or should I use your bizarro-world logic > and claim that you're just saying it works, and if you really and > truly thought that it worked, you would be complaining too. > > > View comments like his as a compliment > > I tried to respond to that, but I couldn't avoid the use of sarcasm. > > > he obviously has come to use FreeBSD so much that he considers it no > > different than "commercial" software > > You don't understand the categories of software. I probably phrased that sentence incorrectly. What I was trying to say is that you don't consider FreeBSD experimental, because people that have software packages they view as experimental (ie: beta) generally understand that beta software is supposed to have parts of it broken. With commercial software, you have every right to call the software vendor a criminal ring of thieves (if you so desire) when you find bugs in it because you have PAID for the software. In short, the software has been represented to you as being solid, production-level software, ie: a defined product that has value and you have given the developer money for it. There's a contractual relationship there which if you knew anything about consumer product laws you will understand what I'm talking about. It's illegal to misrepresent broken products as working then go sell them. When you find a bug or defect, that defect violates that contractual relationship, and under the law the producer is still liable even if they swear that they wern't aware of the defect. In short, the law places a burden on the software vendor to immediately fix defects in their software when those defects are discovered. I can't help it that companies like Microsoft tell clueless idiots that they aren't liable for software defects, and the clueless idiots believe them, that doesen't change product law. With Free software, on the other hand, there's absolutely no merchantability or liability of fitness because no contractual relationship is formed by the user and the producer, because no money changes hands. Therefore, as a user you have zero rights to say squat if you find a defect. But that aside, if > you knew anything about me at all, you'd realize that you could not be > more wrong with that stupid remark. > > > of which people take complaining about to a high art form. > > You give me too much credit for a couple of sentences I hardly put any > effort (or thought) into. And you obviously consider my comments to be written about you, they were not. I do care that people who have produced code for the Project in the past are bothered by what you wrote. My comments were trying to make them feel better, they were not about you at all. Ted To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-multimedia" in the body of the message
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