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Date:      Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:09:00 -0400
From:      "Antoine Beaupre (LMC)" <Antoine.Beaupre@ericsson.ca>
To:        Jamie Norwood <mistwolf@mushhaven.net>
Cc:        "Antoine Beaupre (LMC)" <Antoine.Beaupre@lmc.ericsson.se>, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: OT: yet another discussion FTP vs HTTP (was: IPFW almost works now.)
Message-ID:  <3B2684EC.2010205@lmc.ericsson.se>
References:  <657B20E93E93D4118F9700D0B73CE3EA0166D97D@goofy.epylon.lan> <20010612152856.A72299@mushhaven.net> <3B267827.5090002@lmc.ericsson.se> <20010612162749.A73655@mushhaven.net> <3B2680EB.9040007@lmc.ericsson.se> <20010612165814.B74054@mushhaven.net>

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Jamie Norwood wrote:

>>>No, it has a host of limitations all it's own, not the least of which is 
>>>that is is actually less efficient at transfering files, 
>>>
>>I heard a few things regarding that, all contradictory. :) Could you 
>>give me a few examples/explanations/references as to why it is less 
>>efficient? I'd be curious.
> 
> I have to admit I have nothing on hand, so will concede that battle for lack
> of ammunition. I could easily be wrong.


Yay! ;)

>>>and that it has limited CLI tools. 
>>>
>>I think that would be the biggest limitation. HTTP could technically 
>>override FTP's functionalities using the PUT and DELETE actions, but the 
>>only clients actually implementing this functionality are either dead 
>>(netscape 3) or forgotten (amaya). :)
> 
> The question is why bother? If, as you say above, there is no difference
> between the two other than interface, what makes HTTP better than FTP?
> FTP has suited well for CLI work for many years. (Continued below)


One less data connection. :) Actually, I think I agree with you on a few 
points, see below.

 
>>>Remember, not every computer has a monitor, mouse, and
>>>web browser!
>>>
>>Yeah... but every computer should at least have something like 
>>lynx/links/w3m/wget/fetch/whatever...
>>
>>You don't need a fully featured web browser to download/upload files to 
>>a webserver. Only to display them. Same for ftp.
> 
> But they make it unessacarily convoluted to browse for wanted files. HTTP is
> not, in this case, an adequet substitute for FTP. Yes, these methods .work.,
> but are more of a kludge than anything.


Exactly. That is what I was looking for. Browsing of files over HTTP is 
"patchy". Some kind of workaround involving HTML. It sucks. :)

>>>I would love to see something quality replace FTP. Maybe SFTP will, but it
>>>is still young, and if SSH is any indication, the onlt commercial support
>>>for it will be very expensive (IE, SecureCRT/SecureFX at about $100 each).
>>>
>>SFTP is not really an alternative. From what I understand, it is only 
>>built over ssh and therefore needs a corresponding shell account (if you 
>>exclude the RSA auth).
> 
> SFTP is only needed over FTP in circumstances where security is needed, which
> is any time a password is involved.


I think you misunderstood. If you need to allow ftp access, *securly*, 
you must use sftp, and then, you must provide the user with a shell 
account, which is by definition a higher security risk, unless you 
disable the shell account and use only RSA auth. Which is completly 
user-unfriendly.

 > Anonymous FTP doesn't need SFTP.

Agreed. Anonymous FTP still rocks. But then again... why have a root 
process running for anonymous ftp? :)

>>It is surprising we (the internet community) haven't come up with a 
>>viable replacement.
> 
> No, it isn't, because I don't really think there is a need for an elaborate
> replacement. What is so broken about FTP?


I must admit I do not have pretty strong ammo against ftp. It is a pain on firewall setups, though.
 
[snip]


> Jamie

A.
--
La sémantique est la gravité de l'abstraction.

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