Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:12:38 -0700 (MST) From: "M. Warner Losh" <imp@bsdimp.com> To: obrien@FreeBSD.org Cc: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, ed@FreeBSD.org, stas@FreeBSD.org, rwatson@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r187332 - head/tools/regression/usr.bin/jot Message-ID: <20090119.191238.1389906774.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20090120012256.GB29741@dragon.NUXI.org> References: <20090119165030.GA18409@dragon.NUXI.org> <20090119.181435.-298663465.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090120012256.GB29741@dragon.NUXI.org>
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In message: <20090120012256.GB29741@dragon.NUXI.org>
"David O'Brien" <obrien@FreeBSD.org> writes:
: On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 06:14:35PM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote:
: > In message: <20090119165030.GA18409@dragon.NUXI.org>
: > "David O'Brien" <obrien@FreeBSD.org> writes:
: > : On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:00:55PM +0000, Robert Watson wrote:
: > : >
: > : > On Sat, 17 Jan 2009, Stanislav Sedov wrote:
: > : >
: > : >> Was this discussed somewhere? I don't understand why we should restrict
: > : >> our filesystem naming because of limitation of auxilary filesystems.
: > : >> There're even more restrictive filesystems available, we couldn't support
: > : >> them all. While previous modifications looked harmless this one seems
: > : >> questionable to me.
: > : >>
: > : >> I understand, this is a bikesched, but I really don't see a reason. You
: > : >> can't build FreeBSD on windows anyway.
: > : >
: > : > Many of us would *very* much like to be able to cross-build FreeBSD from
: > : > both Windows and Mac OS X, which would be highly desirable for embedded
: > : > systems and appliance shops.
: > :
: > : Run VMware. Seriously. Or raise a serious discussion on developers@
: > : about this and get conciseness that cross building on MacOS X and
: > : MS-Windows is a goal.
: >
: > I've tried this on my mac. It doesn't work very well at all, and it a
: > pita for file sharing.
:
: Sorry - I don't quite follow. What is "it"?
The point I've made several times: minor renaming isn't much of a
pain. It has big benefits to those people that wish to use other file
systems that have different restrictions than we have.
Yelling 'run a VM' isn't a productive suggestion, frankly, and given
the low level of pain for a rename, shouldn't be yelled at all. I'm
glad JUNOS can build inside its own VM. Kudos. But given that the
world is much more than a tightly controlled development environment
at a well funded company, I think that we need to be more
accommodating. Especially for the embedded world.
While a 'vm solution' is OK for today, I think it is too short-sighted
and leaves some significant opportunities on the table. We shouldn't,
as a project, say "nothing can change at all" for these systems.
Rather, we should do a cost benefit analysis. For renaming, the cost
seems very low, and the benefit seems very large. For other things,
we'll cross that bridge when we come to it...
Warner
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