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Date:      Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:56:12 -0400
From:      Michael Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Sadly, my tinker-time has run out....
Message-ID:  <200709021356.23513.mchauber@gmx.net>
In-Reply-To: <46DA9AA5.8030904@otenet.gr>
References:  <200709020222.21000.mchauber@gmx.net> <46DA9AA5.8030904@otenet.gr>

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On Sunday 02 September 2007 07:12:37 am Manolis Kiagias proclaimed:
> Michael Hauber wrote:
> > Hey, all...
> >
> > I've been a user of FreeBSD and OpenBSD for quite a while now.=20
> > Unfortunatly, I haven't had much time to tinker lately, and that's
> > unlikely to change in the near future.  Sadly, I need to get an OS that
> > my wife would be more comfortable using and that wouldn't be as
> > time-comsuming to make it more comfortable for her.
> >
> > I downloaded the uberyl live CD and found that ubuntu seems to pick up =
on
> > everything I have on the laptop (as well as all the attachments), so I'm
> > downloading it now.
> >
> > Because I've put so much time into getting this FreeBSD install where it
> > is now (and because I favor the BSDs), I'm still a bit hesitant...  Has
> > anyone here had much experience with ubunu as a desktop?=20
> > Negatives/positives?
> >
> > Kind of OT, I guess...  I'd just rather hear it from someone in this
> > group rather than the inevitable, "Oh yeah.  You won't be sorry." from
> > the ubuntu folk (salespitches =3D=3D fingernails on a chalkboard :) ).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > PS.  Yes, I've played with PC-BSD.  Unfortunately, that's still more wo=
rk
> > than I have time for.
>
> I am working (and tinkering as you put it) with many kinds of systems:
> Fedora / Ubuntu as desktops, Debian as servers, FreeBSD both desktops
> and servers, Windows 2003 servers, XP desktops, even Vista :)
> To put it simply, every system has its strong points, ups and downs. For
> example, Windows has drivers for everything - many are crap, but they
> still exist - and a few applications you just can't replace with
> anything else. Ubuntu, the one you are considering, is based on Debian,
> which I consider excellent, especially for servers. But if you are
> coming from a FreeBSD background, Ubuntu will seem rather "restrictive"
> and "easy". It is an easy desktop for *NIX beginners, and it is now
> marketed as the Linux you will never have to touch the command line. As
> I recall, the default install will not even setup gcc, although the
> package (build-essential) is on CD. There are obviously a lot of helper
> apps, like automatic installation of codecs etc. but it is still Linux.
> If you are a power user you will need to tinker it, and there will be
> things missing you will need to install. Example: First time I tried to
> mount some NFS shares, they were taking ages. I found out it was missing
> the nfs-common package. Maybe a beginner does not care about it, but I
> consider this basic functionality and expect it to be there (or that I
> will be informed it is not, beforehand). I also need the compiler,
> kernel headers and stuff to compile kernel modules. Ubuntu seems to have
> a lot of ready made things, good for beginners but quite limiting for
> me, I have to actually rip things out to install my stuff (e.g. disable
> their versions of some restricted drivers to install mine). That being
> said, it is making an alternate, non-Windows desktop accessible to a lot
> of people, which I consider a good thing.
> Though I suggest Ubuntu to enthusiastic Linux beginners, I find it
> difficult to give an argument for anyone with an average FreeBSD
> knowledge. At home I mostly use Fedora as a Linux desktop.
>
> The part of your post I don't really understand, is what is really
> bothering you with your FreeBSD install. Are you missing programs /
> features you just can't live without?  Is it something to do with the
> ports / packages? Installing, customizing and becoming familiar with
> your FreeBSD system does take some time, but this is followed by a very
> long effortless stable operation. Assuming a typical installation where
> users' needs don't constantly change, you can easily maintain a FreeBSD
> install with minimum hassle. And how is Ubuntu going to be any easier
> for your wife? Assuming you are administering the machine, a FreeBSD
> with  a Gnome  desktop will be more or less the same from the user
> standpoint to Ubuntu (or any other distro) with Gnome.
>
>

These responses have all been informative, and I appreciate them very much.=
=2E.

To answer your question, it's a matter of access for both me and my wife.  =
Due=20
to my job, we travel quite a bit.  For my wife, it's the small things=20
like, "My sister just sent me a link to a video on youtube and it's not=20
working right."  For me, it's the hours I spend pouring over it, trying to=
=20
get it to work for her.

Personally, I prefer to build everything from ports because I can get the=20
custom builds.  On this machine, that takes quite a bit of time.  In one ca=
se=20
(when FreeBSD ports went to x.org7.2 ), it took over a week to upgrade (I=20
arrived at a hotel and immediately started the upgrade, and when it came ti=
me=20
a week later to check out, I had to stop it...  That ended up creating a hu=
ge=20
mess)...

I'd like to think I'm pretty familiar with the BSDs.  I've been using both=
=20
=46reeBSD and OpenBSD since around '98 (both as desktops and various kinds =
of=20
servers...  I used to have 8 computers in my bedroom alone, and my hobby is=
=20
tinkering.  :)  )...  And I preffer them a great deal over any other=20
unix-like OS.  But literally... I just don't have the time, anymore.  For a=
=20
server setup or something? Definately.  Servers don't require a gui and all=
=20
the bells and whistles so it's quick, painless, and rock-solid.  For a=20
desktop?  Not if time is so limited, there is only one computer left=20
(laptop), and the wife is getting annoid enough to say that she had it bett=
er=20
in Egypt.  :)  I just assume have the bells-and-whistles working so her=20
friends don't give her a hard time about it (and something like Beryl would=
=20
definately shut them up.  :) Trivial, I know but for the wife it would be a=
=20
well-deserved revenge.  :) ).

In short, I want something that "just works" and doesn't have the security =
and=20
stability issues that the MS users seem to prefer.  Linux seems to be the=20
better option for that.

I'm in the process of backup, and will be installing ubuntu shortly.  Like =
one=20
of the repliers stated, I too feel somewhat guilty...  But I'll be back one=
=20
of these days.

Thanks, all.


Mike


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