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Date:      Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:38:29 +0800
From:      "David Xu" <bsddiy@163.net>
To:        "Alfred Perlstein" <bright@wintelcom.net>, "Nate Williams" <nate@yogotech.com>
Cc:        "Daniel Eischen" <eischen@vigrid.com>, "Matt Dillon" <dillon@earth.backplane.com>, "Julian Elischer" <julian@elischer.org>, <Arch@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: KSE threading support (first parts)
Message-ID:  <002c01c0cf83$f3d594a0$cc01a8c0@xyf>
References:  <15081.50170.297579.938254@nomad.yogotech.com> <Pine.SUN.3.91.1010427154434.12501B-100000@pcnet1.pcnet.com> <20010427130826.G18676@fw.wintelcom.net> <15081.53821.755743.746621@nomad.yogotech.com> <20010427133433.H18676@fw.wintelcom.net>

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----- Original Message -----
From: Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net>
To: Nate Williams <nate@yogotech.com>
Cc: Daniel Eischen <eischen@vigrid.com>; Matt Dillon
<dillon@earth.backplane.com>; Julian Elischer <julian@elischer.org>;
<Arch@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: KSE threading support (first parts)


> * Nate Williams <nate@yogotech.com> [010427 13:14] wrote:
> > > > > >     Well, that's complete bullshit.  KSE's are extremely
short-running
> > > > > >     affairs in kernel mode, especially when you consider the
most likely
> > > > > >     asynchronizing case (a simple blocking situation that will
most commonly
> > > > > >     be in a read() or write()).
> > > > >
> > > > > Not necessarily.  My experience with developing and running
applications
> > > > > on Solaris says that having multiple KSE's/process is a *huge*
win.
> > > >
> > > > You do know that the proposed implementation isn't quite like
> > > > Solaris (KSEs don't get their own quantum).  You better holler
> > > > if you want it ;-)
> > >
> > > There's two things on the issue that I'd like to bring up.
> > >
> > >    The concepts are cool, however the implementation you guys are
> > >    discussion really hurt my head, not in a bad way, but conceptually
> > >    the concepts look quite daunting.  Kudos if you guys get it done
> > >    though!
> > >
> > >    Being able to have threads used in a "this application wants to
> > >    utilize _all_ available system reasources" meaning if you have
> > >    more than one processor, I want to see mysql, apache, whatever
> > >    using it (by default!).  If your model doesn't include this then
> > >    please don't bother continuing, the stability issues versus the
> > >    gain don't work for me at all.
> >
> > Having 'serialized' KSE's (which Matt wants) means that an application
> > will be *UNABLE* to use all of the system resources, because only one
> > thread in threaded application (apache, mysql, etc..) is allowed to run
> > at one time, no matter how many CPU's are there.
>
> It doesn't seem like that's what Daniel is saying, which is that
> the default will be like this, but that applications or the startup
> code will have the choice.
>
> However that's true then we might as well scrap the project, it
> just brings the complexity out of userland and into the kernel,
> sure we can schedule IO better, but then we might as well cop out
> and use aio and some special signal system for handling faults back
> into the uts.  It's just a lot simpler to go with rfork threads or
> a simpler model than all this complexity just to satisfy Terry's
> view of who should get what quantum.  Honestly if you ask anyone
> they expect to be able to cheat with threads the same way they
> cheat by using multiple processes to gain additional CPU.
>

so you ignore NxN and MxN thread model discuss,  and follow
fuck Linux thread model design. maybe I can not expect such
advance feature will be in  Free OS.
sigh, where is Jason Evans? we need your help.

David Xu




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