Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:11:31 +0200 (CEST) From: "Michael C. Vergallen" <mvergall@double-barrel.be> To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai <asmodai@wxs.nl> Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>, Sergey <serge69@nym.alias.net>, Robert Withrow <witr@rwwa.com>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, jonathan michaels <jon@caamora.com.au> Subject: Re: [Q] How stable is FreeBSD 3.X ? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9905262042230.7510-100000@ws3.double-barrel.be> In-Reply-To: <XFMail.990526200539.asmodai@wxs.nl>
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On Wed, 26 May 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > On 26-May-99 Michael C. Vergallen wrote: > > On Wed, 26 May 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > >> > >> People saw this thread only from a pure user/developer perspective. Now > >> look at it from a workflow perspective. The mail from Sergey, plus other > >> pr's I see in the gnats database clearly lack all components to make > >> accurate suggestions on the next steps possible, and after more than > >> 10000 > >> pr's I can imagine people getting tired of dragging info out of people. > > Yes shure ..but could it just be that the poeple who submit the report > > don't really understand what the developer needs to be able to > > help...sometimes poeple think they are helping by submitting a problem > > report but realy don't quite know complete to make the report in a way > > that makes sense to the developer.. > > True, those people are out there as well and trust me, they don't get shot > down immediately (just take a look at my first few pr's *blush*) > > But I think it has been said/posted/written on a very diverse number of > handbooks/lists/pages/etc that basic information is always the exact error > and noteworthy system configuration (as well as kernel information). Okey fine for someone who comprehends english to a decent degree..but eh let me tell you from experience with a simple orderform I for a product explicitly stating NOT TO send credit-card details by email because of the risks involved... I can show atleast 100 e-mails who have the creditcard date in them sent to me. So you can see that poeple are normaly realy good at not understanding stuf they don't want to. > >> It can be as simple as noting the error after certain actions took > >> place. > >> Or as elaborate as booting with -v, crashdumping the OS and gdb'ing it. > > ok shure that is probably enough info for someone who doesn't do anything > > else but develop code..however for most poeple the line above could be > > just like chinese or whatever. > > Sorry, but a Unix workstation is not a Windows-95-like playtoy... In > Windows I accept the OS crashing for no apparent reason. With Unix > everything is logical and has a reason. Be it by design or from faulty > hardware. Thus people are required, at least in my (humble) opinion to read > up on what they are doing exactly... Unix was never meant for people > refusing to read docs. Hey you don't have to convice me ...I know this in the case however in a way we are discussing like we did for the floppy sage I started a few moons age... the point I was trying to make is that if developers want to recieve less pr's that are useless to them well just maybe they should create a ridgit structure so that poeple have to suply all the info via a form based report or something and only if the data is all there the report gets transmitted or else they could try to make it a lot easyer for poeple to get to grips with what is required for a pr. e.i. don't ask a system admin to read 500 pages before he can submit a pr due to time constraints it will never get read anyway that is just what I was sugesting ...however you tend to disagree with this sugestion okey fine ...but then you will probably continue to have more poeple who suply bad pr's what you all say you want to avoid.... <both points belew deleted because I don't get the relevance at all> > >> And it's documented in the docs how to best report problems. And there, > >> once again, we have the problem of not reading the docs... > > Probably right ...and no I don't think it is not the case of not reading > > the docs but comprehending them..some poeple have a limited comprehention > > of the english language ...so that could be it..( exaple if I wrote to > > you in technical french you probably would not be able to comprehend it > > aldo you would be able to read it same thing goes for poeple not > > comprehending english. maybe one should write docs a 10th grade US scholar > > would coprehend...then this would be less accurant. > Well, let's put it the other way, the only submissions I see for changes in > docs or requests for clarity come from our own development team. How's that > for irony? Hey don't blame me for what poeple don't do or do... Michael --- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
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