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Date:      Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:35 +0000 (UTC)
From:      Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family>
To:        Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de>
Cc:        Michael Sierchio <kudzu@tenebras.com>, Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>,  freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Rust in base
Message-ID:  <1678077549.5929.1579910015816.JavaMail.zimbra@antonovs.family>
In-Reply-To: <20200125003136.a1485866.freebsd@edvax.de>
References:  <775662956.5865.1579896175788.JavaMail.zimbra@antonovs.family> <20200124221319.d4e7fa438cbb1f30da10af2d@sohara.org> <CAHu1Y70UmJB=cgq=an_gqv4ao==H2t5wCxqOudMO_mpX8Ra-pA@mail.gmail.com> <20200125003136.a1485866.freebsd@edvax.de>

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> >=20
> > > On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 20:02:55 +0000 (UTC) Ihor Antonov
> > > <ihor@antonovs.family> wrote:
> > >
> > > > So there are 2 questions: - technical one: how bootstrapping issue =
can
> > > > be solved?  - what does FreeBSD community think of the idea to have
> > > > Rust in base?
> > >
> > >         Some years back a great deal of work was done to remove perl =
from
> > >         the base so adding Rust (or anything else) would be a step ba=
ck.
> > >         An old BSD goal is that base should be just enough to be self
> > >         hosting and be BSD (removing the traditional games from the b=
ase
> > >         took some discussion).
> > >
> > >
> > As a fellow embedded guy, +1 to what Steve says.  Even things in the "B=
ase"
> > should probably have package db entries so they can be removed.



> > Target systems don't necessarily need a compiler or a full tool chain.
> > Then we can converge on a consensus set of basic tools that most people
> > will need, with the opportunity to remove them =E2=80=93 rather than cr=
eating a
> > mini/micro/nano-FreeBSD

> I just hope it doesn't bring us the "joy" known from Linux land where a
> failed update (in this context: of application software, here: installed
> ports / packages) will render the whole system unusable beyong recovery..=
.
> "even the kernel is a package". ;-)


Thanks your for replies,=20

I have probably mixed different things into one bag. Base should be as
minimalist / configurable as people need.  If you are doing embedded indeed=
 you
don't need toolchain on your target system, all you need is the binary code
that does exactly and only what you need.

What I meant is probably not "bring rust into base", but more like "allow
Rust(or Oberon, or any other language that fits the purpose) software in th=
e
lower levels of the system", without compromising flexibility/configuration=
 of
the system. And breaking base into smaller packages would help greatly here=
.


> That is a "longer term goal", but development is heading into the directi=
on
> of making the base OS more modular, and finally abandoning freebsd-update=
 in
> favor of "pkg for base". It would enable FreeBSD to become even more suit=
able
> for "specialized applications" where you intendedly want a minimal or
> tailored footprint of the OS.

Polytropon, can you share elaborate on this? Who is doing this? How can one
participate in this effort?

Thanks,


Ihor



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