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Date:      Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:03:16 -0700
From:      "Aaron D. Gifford" <agifford@infowest.com>
To:        freebsd-net@freebsd.org
Cc:        drwilco@drwilco.net
Subject:   Re: Bug in stateful code? 
Message-ID:  <20020215230316.B0CB52159D@ns1.infowest.com>

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"Rogier R. Mulhuijzen" (drwilco@drwilco.net) was heard to say:
>>>the reply was that keep-state and natd are very hard to use
>>>together, and besides it is rather useless because natd is stateful
>>>by itself.
>>natd is stateful,  but provides no protection for inbound IP traffic
>>that is destined for the filtering host itself.
>
>I have personally looked at natd & stateful ipfw rules, and have concluded 
>that it logically impossible to get it to work.
>
>Thus I made a ipfw rulelist that utilizes the statefulness of natd. I hope 
>this helps you in making your own rulelist.
>

Actually you CAN use both together, but there's really no reason to do so.  
One would be duplicating things, since NAT is effectively a stateful filter 
of sorts.  One just has to think things through very carefully, following the 
flow of packets through the ruleset.

My own ruleset I use at home shares some similarities with your set, Rogier.  
For NAT traffic, I don't use stateful rules -- I let NAT track the state, but 
for traffic to/from my gateway host, I still use stateful rules.  But, the 
way my ruleset is written, I could drop stateful rules in for the NAT traffic 
without a hitch. But it would be wasted duplication of effort for the most 
part.

Aaron out.

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