Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 03:40:53 +0100 From: Brad Knowles <brad.knowles@skynet.be> To: paul beard <paulbeard@mac.com>, Bob Kovacs <bkovacs@mindspring.com> Cc: Salvo Bartolotta <bartequi@neomedia.it>, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Free BSD Message-ID: <p05101574b8b85ba8ca84@[10.0.1.9]> In-Reply-To: <3C928B17.5020300@mac.com> References: <1016219646.3c9247fe203dd@webmail.neomedia.it> <3C928B17.5020300@mac.com>
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At 4:00 PM -0800 2002/03/15, paul beard wrote: > I think you're right about that, but it's hard to believe 128 Mb > is insufficient for a desktop/client UI. How did Apple get away > with their (admittedly simple ) UI in 1 Mb on the old all-in-one > toasters? And come to that, I have 384 Mb in a 350 MHz G3 and OS > X is still less than zippy, where OS 9 fairly flies by comparison. That's like asking how did old mainframes with 8KB of core memory function? For the original 128K Mac, the answer is that all the core GUI stuff was written manually in hand-assembled and extremely highly optimized assembly, in order to cram it all in. The ROMs have gotten progressively bigger over the years, and with MacOS 9 you really want 64MB or even 128MB in order to function minimally well. Of course, MacOS X (with a Mach micro-kernel and *BSD userland) requires an absolute minimum of 128KB, and is much happier with at least 256MB. IMO, Aqua is a quantum leap forward in terms of the kind of control it gives you over the display, but you really, really pay for it. On my PowerBook G3 Pismo (400Mhz), with 1GB of RAM and a 48GB IBM Travelstar hard drive, running MacOS X 10.1.3, here's the rundown for the top ten processes, sorted by virtual size (measured in KB): % ps -auxww | sort -nr +4 | head blk 358 0.0 1.3 1122720 14008 ?? S 46:35.82 /System/Library/CoreServices/Classic Startup.app/Contents/Resources/TruBlueEnvironment blk 18409 0.0 1.7 297812 17560 ?? S 6:04.56 /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app/Contents/MacOS/Finder -psn_0_23592961 blk 9229 0.0 3.0 156440 30972 ?? S 314:17.90 /Applications/Eudora/Eudora 5.1b21/Eudora 5.1 (OS X) /Applications/Eudora/Eudora 5.1b21/Eudora 5.1 (OS X) -psn_0_3932161 blk 20407 0.7 4.5 154700 47084 ?? S 13:26.59 /Applications/Web Browsers/Opera/Opera 5.0b3.465.Cbn/Opera.app/Contents/MacOS/Opera 5.0 PPC /Applications/Web Browsers/Opera/Opera 5.0b3.465.Cbn/Opera.app/Contents/MacOS/Opera 5.0 PPC -psn_0_27525121 blk 353 3.6 0.2 91324 2104 ?? S 124:44.37 /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemUIServer.app/Contents/MacOS/SystemUIServer -psn_0_524289 blk 372 0.0 0.1 88984 748 ?? S 0:03.20 /System/Library/CoreServices/SecurityAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/SecurityAgent blk 356 0.0 0.1 88316 1056 ?? S 0:02.75 /Users/blk/Library/PreferencePanes/WindowShade X.prefPane/Contents/Resources/WindowShade X.app/Contents/MacOS/WindowShade X -psn_0_917505 blk 352 0.0 0.3 86452 3304 ?? S 303:43.26 /System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app/Contents/MacOS/Dock -psn_0_393217 blk 357 0.0 0.1 84972 844 ?? S 16:53.90 /Users/blk/Library/PreferencePanes/FruitMenu.prefPane/Contents/Resources/FruitMenu Daemon.app/Contents/MacOS/FruitMenu Daemon -psn_0_1048577 root 18423 0.0 0.1 83080 992 std- S 149:16.78 /Applications/XDarwin.app/Contents/MacOS/XDarwin -quartz -nostartx Note that XDarwin is the last process on this list, taking up "only" 83MB of virtual memory. If you look at things sorted by RSS, you have to go down to slot #15 to find XDarwin: % ps -auxww | sort -nr +5 | head -n 15 blk 20407 0.3 4.5 154700 47084 ?? S 13:33.89 /Applications/Web Browsers/Opera/Opera 5.0b3.465.Cbn/Opera.app/Contents/MacOS/Opera 5.0 PPC /Applications/Web Browsers/Opera/Opera 5.0b3.465.Cbn/Opera.app/Contents/MacOS/Opera 5.0 PPC -psn_0_27525121 blk 70 2.5 3.0 74752 31944 ?? Ss 303:04.00 /System/Library/CoreServices/WindowServer blk 9229 0.0 3.0 156476 31028 ?? S 314:58.00 /Applications/Eudora/Eudora 5.1b21/Eudora 5.1 (OS X) /Applications/Eudora/Eudora 5.1b21/Eudora 5.1 (OS X) -psn_0_3932161 blk 18409 0.0 1.7 297812 17560 ?? S 6:04.56 /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app/Contents/MacOS/Finder -psn_0_23592961 blk 358 0.0 1.3 1122720 14008 ?? S 46:35.82 /System/Library/CoreServices/Classic Startup.app/Contents/Resources/TruBlueEnvironment root 243 0.0 0.6 27340 6504 ?? Ss 0:02.74 /usr/libexec/CrashReporter blk 20598 7.3 0.6 67232 6276 ?? S 0:09.96 /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app/Contents/MacOS/Terminal -psn_0_27656193 blk 20168 0.0 0.6 63248 5920 ?? S 0:27.76 /Applications/Sherlock.app/Contents/MacOS/Sherlock -psn_0_27000833 blk 19490 0.0 0.4 64776 4156 ?? S 0:06.23 /Applications/Utilities/Console.app/Contents/MacOS/Console -psn_0_25034753 blk 344 0.0 0.4 78988 3680 ?? Ss 0:27.92 /System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/loginwindow console blk 352 0.0 0.3 86452 3304 ?? S 303:43.27 /System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app/Contents/MacOS/Dock -psn_0_393217 blk 68 0.0 0.3 60036 3288 ?? Ss 0:55.00 /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/Support/ATSServer blk 353 0.9 0.2 91324 2104 ?? S 124:47.57 /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemUIServer.app/Contents/MacOS/SystemUIServer -psn_0_524289 blk 356 0.0 0.1 88316 1056 ?? S 0:02.75 /Users/blk/Library/PreferencePanes/WindowShade X.prefPane/Contents/Resources/WindowShade X.app/Contents/MacOS/WindowShade X -psn_0_917505 root 18423 0.0 0.1 83080 992 std- S 149:16.78 /Applications/XDarwin.app/Contents/MacOS/XDarwin -quartz -nostartx Finally, here's what "top" shows for the first six lines: Processes: 45 total, 3 running, 42 sleeping... 132 threads 03:39:08 Load Avg: 0.33, 0.08, 0.03 CPU usage: 6.2% user, 21.9% sys, 71.9% idle SharedLibs: num = 119, resident = 17.3M code, 1.24M data, 4.73M LinkEdit MemRegions: num = 10135, resident = 120M + 4.81M private, 51.4M shared PhysMem: 79.8M wired, 96.4M active, 137M inactive, 313M used, 711M free VM: 3.25G + 53.5M 323757(0) pageins, 430668(0) pageouts You think needing 384MB for FreeBSD is bad? By my calculations, I'd need 2.7GB of RAM if I had to hold everything in RAM that currently has virtual memory assigned to it, and I need at least 183MB just for the RSS of all my currently running program -- and I really don't have that much going. At least you have the option of running X without it being layered on top of something like Aqua. -- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be> Do you hate Microsoft? Do you hate Outlook? Then visit the Anti-Outlook page at <http://www.rodos.net/outlook/>; and see how much fun you can have. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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