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Date:      Sun, 10 Dec 2000 09:37:53 -0600 (CST)
From:      Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>
To:        "Daniel C. Sobral" <dcs@newsguy.com>, Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
Cc:        "Brandon D. Valentine" <bandix@looksharp.net>, Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>, current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Confusing error messages from shell image activation
Message-ID:  <14899.41809.754369.259894@guru.mired.org>
In-Reply-To: <3A336781.94E1646@newsguy.com>
References:  <14898.33404.356173.963351@guru.mired.org> <14898.31393.228926.763711@guru.mired.org> <Pine.BSF.4.21.0012091347030.88984-100000@turtle.looksharp.net> <200012100904.CAA27546@harmony.village.org> <3A336781.94E1646@newsguy.com>

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Daniel C. Sobral <dcs@newsguy.com> types:
> Mike Meyer wrote:
> > Rant second: FreeBSD *violates* years of traditions with it's
> > treatment of /usr/local. /usr/local is for *local* things, not add-on
> > software packages! Coopting /usr/local for non-local software creates
> > needless complexity and confusion, which of course leads to needless
> > pain.
> Not for everyone. FreeBSD adopted one of the ways /usr/local was being
> used. You can keep ranting on this and pretending the way above is how
> everyone used /usr/local as long as you want, but the fact is that you
> won't get this changed.

Interesting. What other OS distribution put things that went into
/usr/local on their distribution media? I don't expect to get it
changed until enough people are aware that it's a problem. Occasional
rounds of consciousness-raising are required to make that happen. That
may not happen until the old guard dies of old age; I asume we both
want FreeBSD to be a viable OS that long.

Warner Losh <imp@village.org> types:
> In message <14898.33404.356173.963351@guru.mired.org> Mike Meyer writes:
> : Corrections first: The only place where FreeBSD fails to follow FHS
> : (in my quick perusal of it) is in putting packages in /usr/local
> : instead of /opt. You can't blame that part of FHS on Linux - I have as
> : yet to see a Linux distro or package do it that way. No, this bit
> : comes from commercial vendors, where it's also steeped in years of
> : tradition.
> Not as many as you might think.  /usr/local predates /opt by several
> years.

I'm aware that software was installing itself in /usr/local years
before it was installing in /opt. On the other hand, vendor software
was installing in /opt years before I ever saw it install in
/usr/local.

> : Rant second: FreeBSD *violates* years of traditions with it's
> : treatment of /usr/local. /usr/local is for *local* things, not add-on
> : software packages! Coopting /usr/local for non-local software creates
> : needless complexity and confusion, which of course leads to needless
> : pain.
> Ummm, software packages have been make installing into /usr/local
> since at least 1985 when I started building them.  no coopting has
> been done.

If memory serves (and it may not at this remove), /usr/local/bin
wasn't on my path until I started using VAXen, meaning there were few
or no packages installing in /usr/local on v6 & v7 on the 11s.

However, FreeBSD is still the only vendor distribution I know of that
installs software in /usr/local. That's the problem - software that
comes from the vendor doesn't belong in the local administrative
regime.

	<mike


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