Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 22:32:51 +0000 From: Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org> To: Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> Cc: Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org>, Eugene Grosbein <eugen@grosbein.net>, Stefan Esser <se@freebsd.org>, "rgrimes@freebsd.org" <rgrimes@freebsd.org>, Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com>, Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org>, Sean Bruno <sbruno@freebsd.org>, "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" <svn-src-head@freebsd.org>, "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" <svn-src-all@freebsd.org>, "src-committers@freebsd.org" <src-committers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Deorbiting i386 (was: Re: svn commit: r333388 - in head: . share/man/man4 sys/confsys/dev/nxge sys/modules sys/modules/nxge tools/kerneldoc/subsys tools/toolstools/tools/nxge usr.sbin/bsdconfig/share) Message-ID: <20180523223251.GA77480@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> In-Reply-To: <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <brooks@freebsd.org> <20180523202228.GC58848@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com>
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--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 03:18:59PM -0700, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <20180523202228.GC58848@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net>, Brooks=20 > Davis wr > ites: > >=20 > > > > --QRj9sO5tAVLaXnSD > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii > > Content-Disposition: inline > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 02:53:16AM +0700, Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > > 24.05.2018 2:30, Cy Schubert wrote: > > >=3D20 > > > > Except for old computers and old software that segfaults on 64-bit,= how=3D > > many people still use i386? > > > >=3D20 > > > > Full disclosure: I'd like to see i386 deorbited before I retire. > > >=3D20 > > > Plese don't. I routinely use FreeBSD11/i386 for cheap VPS hosts havin= g le=3D > > ss than 2G memory > > > because amd64 has noticeable overhead. I even have ZFS-only i386 VPS,= her=3D > > e is live example with 1G only: > > >=3D20 > > > Mem: 10M Active, 69M Inact, 230M Wired, 685M Free > > > ARC: 75M Total, 1953K MFU, 31M MRU, 172K Anon, 592K Header, 42M Other > > > 3500K Compressed, 29M Uncompressed, 8.61:1 Ratio > > > Swap: 1024M Total, 1024M Free > > >=3D20 > > > The VPS has only 20G of disk space and ZFS compression gives > > > compressratio 2.22x for ports, 2.51x for src, 2.29x for obj > > > and 1.95x for installed i386 system plus other software and data. > > > > I think we're quite a ways from being ready to axe i386. > > > > For VPS applications, we should probably get x32 support in place which > > should give us the best of both worlds. > > > > That said, we either need to rev the i386 ABI to use a 64-bit time_t or > > kill it in the not to distant future or we risk embedded systems failing > > in place in 2038. If we assume a 15 year life for most equipment to > > fail electrically or mechanically that says FreeBSD 13 shouldn't support > > the current i386 ABI. >=20 > Rereading this, I'm confused. FreeBSD 13? 2023? Either works for me,=20 > though 2023 is more reasonable and gives people more than enough time=20 > to migrate. My guess is that FreeBSD 12 will be supported through 2023, maybe a little longer. I'd rather not provide *any* support to the current past 2023 which would imply we shouldn't support it in 13 which will extend beyond that. One could come up with a different and also reasonable timeline and that should probably be a job for core++. It's worth noting that we could just decide we're breaking the ABI early in the 13 cycle and not kill i386. -- Brooks --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJbBewSAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAKd4H/3esQvd1sNfVmf05gDo8wW1Y DpjputHcedUlPiCeh1aTaT/YAPCGL77o4lFDWNGR9QuHeKAnYjYIiiQPwxAY/dHU mgQenCJB6VMpcDcBSli1ESC/5AdX8AHnBFZl7XL+J75XuBqkkBCvI6HIsuInVJKB rEObeFr+5hM49IN+whaKJ/EWlPP4ElYhbNQfL4pwr137Lt+j2ETJxuR9iVL9gfFo 0eo0I3oRDCzjweNnlQRRR51VguGseaRS9gVO3qjInGPtbn6mAnxrtGcQwHt595xn 7ZaHYCGcNCrTQ+FczesUvbXLjZgzVTkWH7v32suHobg79Urn7mGCHYK3de8BW+c= =bj3T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v--
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