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Date:      Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:45:34 +0000
From:      "Robert N. M. Watson" <rwatson@freebsd.org>
To:        John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>
Cc:        svn-src-projects@freebsd.org, Alexander Motin <mav@freebsd.org>, src-committers@freebsd.org, Pawel Jakub Dawidek <pjd@freebsd.org>, Ken Smith <kensmith@buffalo.edu>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r217828 - projects/graid/head/sys/geom/raid
Message-ID:  <7FD27004-581F-4FED-858D-5819562CF111@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <201101261042.38218.jhb@freebsd.org>
References:  <201101251534.p0PFY7cF039182@svn.freebsd.org> <4D3FED31.8040304@FreeBSD.org> <1296054407.19051.5.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <201101261042.38218.jhb@freebsd.org>

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On 26 Jan 2011, at 15:42, John Baldwin wrote:

> On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:06:47 am Ken Smith wrote:
>> On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 11:45 +0200, Alexander Motin wrote:
>>> Those who want maximum robustness should use dedicated
>>> drive on the most trivial dedicated controller to make dumping =
reliable.
>>> If we are going above that - there are always some compromises.=20
>>=20
>> Please remember this statement when I change dumpdev from "AUTO"
>> to "NO" in /etc/defaults/rc.conf shortly after branching stable/9.  =
:-)
>=20
> No, I still think this is the wrong answer.  Kernel dumps are not =
inherently=20
> unreliable to the point that we should not enable them by default.  =
However,=20
> turning dumps off is a good way to prevent developers from debugging =
non-
> trivial bugs that are only triggered under real-world workloads.
>=20
> I think we should strive to make our dumps as reliable as possible, =
but=20
> nothing in our system is perfect (hence bugs), and if we are going to =
require=20
> absolute perfection for kernel dumps before enabling them by default =
then we=20
> might as well not ship anything at all as I can _ensure_ you the rest =
of the=20
> system we ship is _not_ absolutely perfect.

I think the real constraint on shipping with dumps enabled remains a =
disk space consideration. If you have a problem triggering a kernel bug, =
you're going to generate quite a few crash dumps in short order, and for =
many users, that result is not good. But the answer there may be better =
savecore behaviour: perhaps we should keep the last (n) (where n is =
small -- perhaps 2) dumps by default, with a way to mark dumps that =
should be saved longer. minidumps have made the world better in some =
ways, I can't help wonder whether that could be refined further...

Robert=



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