Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 14:03:20 -0400 From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" <karl@mcs.com> Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Routers and FreeBSD (let's have a bakeoff) Message-ID: <199605261803.OAA06730@etinc.com>
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Karl writes... >> Just for fun though, whats the mininum cost for a unit with two >> Fast Ethernets and a dual T1 and enough memory (at least 32 >> meg) to be multi-homed running BGP4? PC cost is under >> $2500. and it does quite nicely. > >Again you stack the desk. Why? > >Two T1 inbound circuits require no more than ordinary Ethernet (3MB >aggregate total on each T1 <= ~6Mbps (nominal REAL Ethernet throughput >under load). Not if you have serious local ethernet routing. Aggregate 3Mbs as an average is about right for 10Mbs ethernet , but that doesnt diminish the instantanous requirements of full 10Mbs that a single transaction can easily achieve (or MUCH higher on a fast ethernet). Is it OK with you if the router drops your serial data when say, a backup is being done between the local ethernets (as many popular low-end routers will)? Is the fact that the router can handle average loads "good enough" even if it chokes under peak pressure? My point was that the above box with fast ethernet is big bucks in non-PC routers, and that a PC does very well and fits within a small-medium ISPs budget. Of course a "real ISP" like MCS has no such requirements, im sure. > >I can come up with contrived examples all day. So can you. Why are you >doing so? The rest of us are trying to keep away from that game. Its not contrived, Karl. Its a fairly common scenario. > >Further, that "multi homed Pentium box" will be VERY unlikely to be able >to survive serious convergence situations and still be forwarding packets >during the event. It further has to handle MEDs and policy routing to >be considered something I would recommend that anyone actually run in >a multihomed configuration (this is presuming you really want to >load-balance instead of just using one of the T1s for backup :-) Word is the performance is pretty good. Pentium 133s are pretty fast little buggers. Although, recommendations are almost always highly subjective, so I wouldnt expect one from someone so clearly biased. > >>> I consider the access stuff fairly dinky :-) >> >> and the most lucrative. > >Which is why ASCEND just blew the doors off all the access router people a >couple of months ago (the P130 again) which, dollar-for-dollar, outruns any >PC *OR* traditional router solution. whos doors? my doors are intact :-) And what does "outruns" mean, in human-speak? > >This "leapfrog" game is common in the computer industry. > >> A serious router is one that carries my data. It starts in a small >> office and ends in the backbone, but there are 1000 times more >> small routers than large ones. To dismiss them as "trivial" is to >> ignore 99% of the market, which Im sure you dont want to do. >> >> Dennis > >Again, comparing a PC to a C4500 is once again biasing the equation. > >Compare it against an Ascend P130, and tell me who has the best bang for >the buck. I do regularly. With an Ascend I still have to buy a host to run my web pages, e-mail and DNS. Plus I have an extra hop (rather than having the serial line terminate directly into my host, so the performance is inferior even if the Ascend has a 200Mhz processor in it. With a unix box, I dont need a secondary host, so the cost of an Ascend + host is more that my unix router/host no matter what kind of dinky little host you put on it. You try and tell me that an NT server with an Ascend P130 is a higher perf solution or less costly than a unix host with a card and I'll laugh so hard ..... Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX.
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