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Date:      Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:09:57 -0500
From:      Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: New packaging approach
Message-ID:  <965a3439-1894-cf99-5c82-339ffe41f675@columbus.rr.com>
In-Reply-To: <483d6c09-af4e-5d4a-0681-79498fa3b756@grouchysysadmin.com>
References:  <alpine.BSF.2.00.1712100018070.47298@bucksport.safeport.com> <07f48e07-ce70-7a26-ea19-fd389375afb4@columbus.rr.com> <alpine.BSF.2.20.1712101201270.91490@fledge.watson.org> <1c6fbb48-6029-2d93-8fff-675ef800b3c2@columbus.rr.com> <483d6c09-af4e-5d4a-0681-79498fa3b756@grouchysysadmin.com>

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On 12/10/2017 5:41 PM, Grouchy Sysadmin wrote:
>
>
> On 12/10/2017 02:44 PM, Baho Utot wrote:
>>
>> On 12/10/2017 1:54 PM, doug wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2017, Baho Utot wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/10/2017 12:33 AM, DTD wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 9 Dec 2017, Polytropon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> However, I am not sure how the new packaging approach will handle 
>>>>>> this. As you might have read, pkg will be used for installing and 
>>>>>> upgrading OS files in the future, so there will not be the big 
>>>>>> difference "freebsd-update" and "pkg update" / "pkg upgrade".
>>>>>
>>>>> Where can I read about this? If this leads to dependency issues 
>>>>> similar to those encountered with desktops, my reaction is more of 
>>>>> 'oh s--t' rather then 'oh boy'. Back to the days when the odd or 
>>>>> even versions numbers were for those of us (read me) who do not 
>>>>> track Stable for similar reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The way the packaging of base is currently being done 
>>>> will*guarantee a great level of OH SHIT.
>>>
>>> First, I will qualify my comments by saying I am an end user. I did 
>>> take Kurt McKusick's internals course a decade or so ago. Never 
>>> ended up going anywhere with C but it was/is a good way to 
>>> understand the workings and to be a better sysadmin. My experience 
>>> with FreeBSD is that once release engineering was fully integrated 
>>> into the upgrade process in the 4.x's, maybe the version 5 era 
>>> (memory goes shortly after the tolerance for coding 12 hrs/day) I 
>>> have never had any issues through cvsup, Subversion, and 
>>> freebsd-update. If you follow the releases, they work. Maybe if you 
>>> are developing a port or are a contributor to the base, things are 
>>> not so rosy. But here in userland things are better managed than IBM 
>>> did with MFT, MVT into MVS. I'm pretty sure those guys got paid 
>>> pretty well and did not have to have a day job to do what they 
>>> really wanted to.
>>>
>>> That's a really wordy way to say I disagree with the idea that 
>>> development of the base OS has been mis-handled. In server-land 
>>> since 4.5 no gotcha's here (as a keeper of servers). Things are a 
>>> bit rougher if you want to run a FreeBSD workstation. On my current 
>>> desktop I have gimp, libre office and my window manager of choice. 
>>> 613 packages and items built from ports. The pkg frame-work is much 
>>> improved over the old pkg_add et all. However, the number of 
>>> combinations of {613,n} where n is the number of shared libraries, 
>>> dynamic and static is a large number (finite but unbounded). And all 
>>> involved have to get all the dependencies right to have zero problems.
>>>
>>> My concern is, if it works don't fix it. And, if you must, I would 
>>> like to start getting up to speed on it ASAP. I have access to every 
>>> freebsd list but have not found a discussion of this. My only 
>>> request is to be pointed to where I can follow the discussion.
>>
>> Have you ever used the "packaged base" If not you don't have a clue 
>> to just how bad it is
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> Perhaps https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase would help shed some light on 
> things.

Well just don't actually do what the PkgBase wiki tells you.....You'll 
be sorry.
Also do a little reading from the wiki and ask your self how do you get 
rid of the terrible mess packaged base has made and return to the 
previous system.....That alone should keep you from trying it. I know 
how to return the system to the state before you did the packaged base 
stuff, and I can tell you it isn't easy.




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