Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:16:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org> To: ML Duke <mlduke@concentric.net> Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What Value Public Schools? Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.970813134204.12314A-100000@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> In-Reply-To: <33F16449.21862F8B@concentric.net>
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[Ok, to an extent this has been discussed to death, but I want to make _one_ (1) comment! I know I shouldn't, and I'm trying to resist, believe me, but I can't. :-] On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, ML Duke wrote: > Public schools are a national disaster, and the biggest of > these is that the vast majority of public school products under > 40 believe that moral absolutes do not exist, and then we > wonder why crime is on the steady rise: Everything is relative > and anything goes. Including murder. Always very easy to shift the blame as far away as possible from ourselves, eh? > Public schools are no different than any other government program: The > War on Poverty creates more of it, The War on Drugs does the same, and > even the Paperwork Reduction Act created more government paperwork. <sigh> I think your view is just a tad jaded. > Another star example is that public school students know little > or nothing about the time value of money: Ask a few to estimate > the actual savings created by paying $50 per month more over > the life of a thirty year mortgage. When you have verified the > student knows Zip, (Hell, most of them can't count change) ask > yourself who benefits from the student not knowing it. I can't. I'm not sure I care that I can't. Oddly enough, that's the type of thing my private school teaches in _general_ math, but not in _advanced_ math. > Public school students are not taught How to Think, they are taught What > to Think and to have "self esteem" that far exceeds their ability, to be > good little government socialists (read Carl Marx Communist) and believe > the "news" they see on television because it is "official." [This is the comment I want to make, btw] You are vastly underestimating the value of what you're trying to shoot down. Emphasis in education has shifted from silly little rote learning that you were likely immersed in as a child. The emphasis now is on the _method_, ie. How to Think. You complain about "self esteem", but I know _way_ too many friends who have been conditioned to believe that they are not smart. When they get their usuall poor marks, they excuse them with "I'm not smart, anyways." This belief becomes an excuse to, of all things, not put effort into their work. When Ontario destreamed grade 9 there were many screams just like yours, but, oddly enough, after these parents who complained saw their children go through it, many changed (not that I necessarily support destreamed grade 9, but). We ["we" != US] tend to perform poorly on standarized tests compared to other countries such as Japan. This looks bad until one looks more closely. It turns out that on a "brightest student" for "brightest student" basis, we do Ok. What made the statistics look bad was the fact that certain other countries dropped their poor students out of school, leaving only the bright ones while we were more likely to enforce a minimum amount of education. I'm not saying that certain education systems aren't broken, but I am saying that a return to what you seem to be advocating is going backwards. > The majority of people under 40, for example, do not have a > clue of what really happened at Ruby Ridge, Waco or Oklahoma > City, and there are not one in ten thousand--I estimate--that > has even heard of the Maynard Campbell incident in Oregon, > much less many other incidents of isolated "what really happened" -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk
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