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Date:      Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:56:37 +0200
From:      Chris Knipe <>
To:        Aryeh Friedman <>
Cc:        Polytropon <>, FreeBSD - <>
Subject:   Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <>
References:  <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

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On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 2:50 PM Aryeh Friedman <>

> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:28 AM Chris Knipe <> wrote:
>>   Your own message - a very good example of
>> what's wrong with it.  Straight from gmail.  In outlook (for example,
>> which
>> has a narrower reading plane), it will be even worse, as even -more-
>> scrolling would be required.
> Reading the original message on gmail was no problem for me nor unreadable
> in any way (you must have your gmail configured in some f'ed up way!).

Never in my life, changed a setting in gmail - so that's how it is
displayed by default.  Don't blame me, blame gmail.  I never changed

>> We don't use 640x480 monitors anymore (hell, not even our SSH sessions run
>> at these low resolutions and 80 col / 25 rows anymore) - we're way past
>> that as well...  Whilst I now have to scroll up and down to read your
>> message, I could have seen your entire message in one screen without the
>> need to scroll up and down.
> Maybe if you have *perfect* eyesight you could see it on one screen! (Not
> everyone is 18 and has vision better than most fighter pilots).    And you
> might be wrong about the row/col count of some/most SSH (X based terminal
> apps) for example on a 1920x1080 monitor (27") my 50 year old eyes need
> 37x135 (not that much larger than 25x80) when using a xfce terminal, the
> default font size is unreadable even with 1.75 diopter reading glasses
> (which are not needed if I use the above resolution).    Before you go
> crazy about how everything can be done via a GUI I have one question: are
> you a programmer or a sysadmin? (if not then you have no idea of how useful
> a command line is vs. the GUI).

Well if we have to get personal, I am 40 years old, psoriasis, rheumatoid
arthritis affecting my eyesight, with glasses. My monitors run at their
default resolution of 1920x1080 and I have zero issues seeing anything.
Maybe you should go for an eye test, and get some glasses?

PS: I do sysadmin, networking (my full time profession), as well as
programming.  Been doing so for 20+ years actually.

> Entry level from my local computer superstore (microcenter) is 25" and I
> am sure I would have an even lower resolution there.  So no we are *NOT*
> way past 25x80, you are just being dense and an elitist to say otherwise.

And in typical FreeBSD mailing list etiquette, now we get offended and
start slandering people.

Nice discussion, I'm done now.  Have better things to do than enter into
personal rants and arguments.

PS: You are the *EXCEPTION*, not the *NORM*.


Chris Knipe

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