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Date:      Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:59:26 -0700
From:      Nate Williams <nate@yogotech.com>
To:        Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Cc:        nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: C vs C++
Message-ID:  <15494.26382.819650.400667@caddis.yogotech.com>
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020306114140.02d4baa0@localhost>
References:  <4.3.2.7.2.20020306075350.00ddfb00@localhost> <3C857080.44C5236B@mindspring.com> <20020305193028.H6706-100000@alpha.yumyumyum.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20020306114140.02d4baa0@localhost>

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> >So, why don't you like Java if you like safer languages?  
> 
> Because of the "oh, no!" factor.
> 
> You see, whenever Java starts up in a user's browser, the result
> is invariably a long delay (during which the browser freezes).

The use of Java doesn't necessarily imply the user of a browser.  As a
matter of fact, I don't consider Java on the browser to be a
viable/useful use of Java, except for 'Toy' applets (bouncing dots,
waving flags, etc..)

> The computer responds slowly, if at all, and memory is often
> exhausted. And when the program finally runs, it's usually trivial eye
> candy.

See above.  You're try to use Java on a bloated browser, for an
application that doesn't require Java (which has high initial overhead).

I meant using Java for something *realistic*, aka an "application".

> Now, you know and I know that this is mostly an *implementation*
> problem (though some of the overhead really is required by the
> language and the runtime environment.) But users don't. When you say
> you're working in Java, they expect the worst due to their painful
> browser experiences.

Most users don't know Java is being used, since the browser
experience is painful whether or not Java is being used or not. :)

> What's more, I'm not an OOP fanatic. Anything that's inescapably
> object oriented requires a long learning curve and can be quite
> inefficient.

I *used* to think that way until I actually took the time to implement
something that forced (!) me to design something in an OOP way., without
the language getting in the way.

Being C-like I didn't have to re-learn alot of what I already know, so I
could spend more time on the design instead of trying to figure out the
language so much.  Also, I was lucky in that the project had no hard and
fast deadlines, so we were free to re-implement some of the basic
infrastructure two or three times before we brought it to market.

We were able to correct a number of mistakes we made in the first
iteration, and then go back and correct our 'fixes' in the third
iteration. :)


Nate

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