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Date:      Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:42:34 -0700 (MST)
From:      Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
To:        joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de
Cc:        freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: floppy format detection [was Re: devfs questions]
Message-ID:  <199604091942.MAA05667@phaeton.artisoft.com>
In-Reply-To: <199604090801.KAA08669@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 9, 96 10:01:01 am

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> > IMO, the tradeoff between full automatic format detection, semi-automatic
> > detection (as in the 16/6000) and manual specification, is a question of
> > driver complexity plus how much delay you are willing to experience on each
> > open of the drive, plus whether you can determine certain things without
> > damage to the hardware.   I personally prefer having an semi-automatic
> > dev plus manual devs or an ioctl available for explicit settings.
> 
> I fully agree with you here.  That's why i would like to have a part
> of the minor number available for several densities, where only
> density 0 is autodetect.
> 
> >  In the PC/AT world, the CMOS provides the "hints" needed to perform
> > semi-automatic operations and get the test time down to an
> > acceptable level.
> 
> But only for the first two drives. :-)

I really do not see the problem with time penalizing people for old
hardware.

How are you going to "make things equitable" so that my 65ms MFM drive
goes as fast as possible?  By penalizing everyone with 8.5ms drives,
who have paid a premium for the speed?

The same argument applies to penalizing me by only allowing me to
store 120M on my MFM drive, while Jordan with his SCSI drive gets
to store 2G -- aren't all platters equivalent?  Shouldn't we put
in compression so as to make things "more equitable", even though
the consequence is a system Jordan feels is unusable?


The penalty for hardware without media change notification is the
need to check on access after the drive motoro is stopped.  You
can take the last active format as a "hint" of where to start
checking.  You can also take the CMOS drive type information as
a hint as to a range restriction on the list that must be checked.

You run old hardware?  You pay in time.  You run more floppy devices
than are in CMOS?  You pay in time.


The problem with density hints is that there is no such thing as an
automount.

I can stuff a floppy in a drive on a DOS box, do a "dir" and have it
list the floppy contents *regardless* of the format.

And you guys are saying FreeBSD can never do this thing that DOS does
because it needs to have the device identified for a manual mount
instead of a mount as a result of automatic device identification.

For comparison, see the SCSI floppy drives and the multiple density
Sony optical drive on NeXT machines -- which automount removable
media to a "folder" (directory) in the user's home directory when
the media is inserted.

Next you'll be suggesting that PCMCIA cards (insertable media, much
like floppies, which require a complex procedure to identify the
media following insertion) should have a manual component to their
insertion, based on card type (a weenie "mount" command, if you
will).

People with crappy ardware will have to live with it.  Just like
Bruce lives with typing ^C to flush the FCB's on his DOS drive
without change notification when changing media.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.



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