Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:32:27 +1300 From: "Dan Langille" <junkmale@xtra.co.nz> To: "Oben O. Candemir" <dunya@one.net.au>, Jamie Bowden <jamie@itribe.net> Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD IRC channels and ??quality?? Message-ID: <19990120093207.LYTM682101.mta1-rme@wocker> In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.96.990120003101.26730A-100000@animaniacs.itribe.net> References: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9901191327040.7090-100000@fireball.2000.com.au>
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On 20 Jan 99, at 0:46, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Oben O. Candemir wrote: > > > > > kinder and gentler in that respect are the purest bovine exhaust as > > > I've already illustrated. EFNET in general is a cesspool and probably > > > shouldn't be mentioned in the Handbook, in fact, I'll take that > > > mention right out. > > > > You could have stated that you were a chanop on #freebsd from the > > start... OK, I guess I should say now that I'm a [recently made] channel operator on Undernet #freebsd. Most of use are regular freebsd users. As I write, there are 16 users, and nothing has been said during the past hour. That's probably because it's about 4:20am (in New York, only 10:20 pm here). > > Afterall, you can't tell a parent their child is ugly. > > > > You ought to move the whole 'cesspool' channel to #pseudoBSD or > > #losersBSD and allow someone more able to run #freebsd in a manner that > > REFLECTS upon the majority of users. > > > > Otherwise... may you live long and go on spurting bovine exhaust... and > > smelling it. Whichever takes your fancy. Ummm, I'm just rejoined chat, so I've missed most all the rest of this thread. So I really don't know what's what. There are no guarantees when it comes to free support. We do our best when we can and in the areas in which we feel competent. If we make mistakes, they were honest ones and we will both learn. The one basic rule on our channel is "Don't be rude". This applies to everyone, including the ops. We don't kick for newbie questions. In fact, we're there for the newbies. The "experts" know what to do already. It's the newbies that need help. And that's why were there. I'm speaking mainly for myself, but understand that my views are shared by most of the channel regulars. > Lemme throw something your way. It's called a clue. Jordan doesn't spend > a whole lot of time on irc (if you found him there, it was a rare day, or > he couldn't sleep). When he does, he's immediately op'd, as most FreeBSD > users will recognize him, and being nice to anyone who's on the -core > mailing list is usually in your own best interest. jkh helped me out once in #efnet (this was long before I knew who he was). So did someone else. But that was not the norm. I was a newbie seeking informaton on the basics. I didn't know what I needed to know or where to find. I choose #efnet freebsd because I heard about it. > Now, I don't hang out > in EFNet #FreeBSD much anymore, haven't in several years now. When the > channel averaged ~15 people at any given time, it was mostly admins, > chatting about freebsd related stuff. Last time I looked, there were over > 50 people in #FreeBSD, and most were not the general user type I'd > personally hang out with. We seem to fully agree on this one. I'm not sure why the people hang there, but, for the main part, I don't think it's to help others. As a newbie, I certainly didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling. And let's face it, that's what a newbie needs. They don't need someone telling them they're an idiot, or being talked down to, or being insulted. If someone is asking a question and you want to help, go ahead. But questions should be answered politely and perhaps direct the person to a resource where they can find the help they are requesting. man x is not usually enough. But if you saw "see the Y part of man X, it explains it". But let's face it, helping is not for everyone. If you don't want to help, don't. But on the same hand, don't abuse those fairly seeking help. That's just plan rude. > Call me elitist or tasteful, your choice, but > the point is, IRC is not a viable form of tech support in any fashion. > Their is too much room for abuse, and no way to do any real regulation If > you need help, buy a book, or call someone, but don't bitch about lack of > free support on the net. FreeBSD is not Linux. The two projects have > different goals and user bases. I'm not sure of the expectations of the people concerned, but I find that all of my tech support is obtained via the net. If I can't get the help I need on IRC, I search the mailing list archives. Rarely now do I have to post a question to the mailing list. But when I do, the answer usually comes through. > This has no connection to the FreeBSD project, it's > just something a bunch of FreeBSD guys put together in our spare time. > It's not something generally advertised, as evenings and weekends tend to > be slow (we do have lives outside of work, you see), and finding dead air > is the norm. If you want to hang out and answer questions, feel free, but > no one is going to pay you for it, and if you get so much as a thanks, it > was a good day. Welcome to volunteerism. Sound like our channel. We should start popping round. > I suppose I should quit ranting now. I heard no ranting. Did you? cheers -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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