Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:29:14 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@FreeBSD.org> To: Brad Knowles <brad.knowles@skynet.be> Cc: Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@online.fr>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: French, Flemish and English (was: cvs commit: src/sys/alpha/alpha clock.c) Message-ID: <20020522182914.I45715@wantadilla.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <p05111720b910f739ea12@[10.0.1.4]> References: <20020519134348.I67779@blossom.cjclark.org> <p05111722b90de01cc974@[10.9.8.215]> <20020520195703.A79046@dragon.nuxi.com> <p05111701b90fb2744154@[10.9.8.215]> <20020521103710.C71209@lpt.ens.fr> <p05111703b90fc048bd8f@[10.0.1.4]> <20020521133026.L71209@lpt.ens.fr> <p05111705b90fe1afee46@[10.0.1.4]> <20020522112854.A26107@wantadilla.lemis.com> <p05111720b910f739ea12@[10.0.1.4]>
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On Wednesday, 22 May 2002 at 9:28:38 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 11:28 AM +0930 2002/05/22, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > >> That presupposes that pronunciation of words is a function of the >> language spoken. For words which don't belong to the language, this >> doesn't make any sense. > > I disagree. So long as the word appears to be pronounceable in a > particular language, then I believe that most people who speak that > language will probably try to pronounce it according to the customs > of their native language. Assuming they recognize the word or its derivation. > The only exception to this rule would be if they happen to speak > the language from which the word comes and recognize it, or if they > have otherwise obtained information to lead them to believe that > this particular word should be pronounced according to "foreign" > rules. Well, that's one common exception. It's certainly not the only one. > There is a Japanese word for thank you. How do you think that > it is properly spelled using what they call "romaji", and how is it > pronounced? I don't know. But if you can't read or write, and you hear the word from a native speaker, how do you pronounce it? >> I find this surprising. This must be something to do with the French >> Belgians. In France, women don't get the name of their husband. Yes, >> they're allowed to use it, and almost invariably do, but you'll notice >> the difference between "Helen Smith née Jones" and "Yvonne Belmont >> épouse Dupont". My wife is French, and we got married in Germany, >> where they have a book of rules. Their book of rules stated that my >> wife was not allowed to take my name, and no proof we could give them >> would convince them of the contrary. After something like 11 years of >> marriage they finally found a solution, but by that time we were >> leaving anyway. > > We got married in the US, precisely to avoid this kind of > crap. That wouldn't (theoretically) have helped you. > Frankly, we have no idea what the book of rules for Belgium > specifies as to who may use what name. I was referring to German interpretations of French law. Theoretically it could have happened to us even if we had been married outside Germany, though in practice we could have been a little better off because the Standesbeamte probably wouldn't have looked the case up in his Big Book. > So far as I know, they look at us as a married American couple, and > may perhaps apply some particular view as to how they think that > Americans normally handle the name issue. Precisely. In Germany it was no different: they applied some particular view as to how they think that French law handles the name issue. Even declarations from the French consulate wouldn't shake their conviction. >> Again, this is possibly more the case in Bruxelles than in France. >> The worst thing you can do is speak Flemish to them. > > To those that speak both French and English, that is generally > true. To those that speak both French and Flemish but not English, > that is obviously false. The problem is, you don't know, a priori, > what other languages the person may speak, and you don't know if > trying either English or Flemish as the second alternative is going > to offend them. That seems to depend on your accent. Speak Flemish to a Walloon with a French accent, and you could be in trouble. I've seen it happen, and the one doing the complaining was a policeman. >> In France, I've frequently spoken to people in French and been >> answered in English. > > I've only visited more tourist-friendly areas in France, but the > areas of France that I have been to I have encountered fewer language > problems than in some areas of Belgium (where I've been to more > off-the-beaten-track areas). My observation is that the French off the beaten track are much friendlier than those in tourist areas. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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