Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:28:40 -0700 (PDT) From: jessem@livecam.com To: tlambert@primenet.com Cc: jkh@osd.bsdi.com, jessemonroy@email.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Concern over ftp.freebsd.org Message-ID: <200105042129.OAA24725@dnull.com> In-Reply-To: <200105041730.KAA15084@usr08.primenet.com>
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On 4 May, Terry Lambert wrote: >>>...[Trimmed]... > ] Also, this is (again) a ports collection issue and should be taken > ] up with the appropriate maintainers. > > I still think this is a build issue, not a ports issue; it speaks > to repeatability. You argue that the tools not building correctly > is a ports issue; I'm arguing that even if the ports were corrected, > there's no guarantee that the files needed to build them will > persist over time. > > To put it another way, I think that if under-water archeologists > salvage a PC with a CVS mirror on it 50 years from now, that it > should be possible to "make release" on the thing, and have it > work. I guess I'm asking that the build bits be archived with > the rest of the FreeBSD sources, and pulled down as part of the > process of mirroring a full source tree. > I must agree with Terry on this point. This build issue has been one of the selling points to *BSD. Under Linux and other OSs this is a major issue. Under *BSD, it is a selling point. >>>...[More Trimmed]... > ] > This is not to be spiteful, but what would happen if the holders of > ] > these things suddenly became adversarial to the project? > ] > ] We (core) already discussed that way back when the WC filing > ] occurred. In the worst case, we simply change our name and the > ] trademark holder is left holding an empty bag. A painful transition > ] to be sure, but even the threat of doing that should generally be > ] enough to avoid going to such an adversarial extreme. It's truly the > ] project which holds the cards here, not some PTO registrant. > > I was more worried about what happens if the legal entity holding > the thing dissolves without assigning it to the project, and what > happens to the project. > > Clearly there's always the "change the name" option, but that seems > to have been enough to prevent "BrettBSD"; it's not like you change > the name in /usr/src/Makefile.inc1, and you're done. > > I also think that the success of a follow-on project would be minimal, > comparatively: the project would lose a _lot_ over something like > that. Right now, we have to manually correct the origins of the > FreeBSD project, or people think that it's something that started > after Linux as a "me too!" type thing. The same barriers to "BrettBSD" > would be there for "TheOperatingSystemFormerlyKnownAsFreeBSD". > I agree with Terry's point on this. The PTO registrant needs better protection. There are many organizations that have been tossed into limbo because of situations like this. BMUG easily comes to mind. > ] > This concern is amplified by the recent problems with the PicoBSD > ] > builds, using 4.3-RELEASE. > ] > ] Which has nothing to do with WindRiver. If the people doing PicoBSD > ] wish to put more time into it, and I'm sure they'd welcome your own > ] contributions, that remains entirely independent of this issue. > > I understand that; but this is the first time in a long time it > has been broken following a release. It's the appearance of the > thing. > > I'm sure that if Windriver had a big market in PCMCIA drivers, we'd > have some people placing blame for the 4.3 PCMCIA card insertion > freezes on their doorstep, as an anticompetitive practice. > > I think that, as ridiculous as that seems, care needs to be taken > to preclude such conclusions, and to deprive skeptics of their > ammunition. > > I completely agree with Terry on this point. Part of my frustration in coming to the mailing list (and shooting first and asking questions later) was exactly this behaviour. As the club president (in SV of all places), I get requests and questions which I'd never consider. I'm constantly bombarded with rumours and inudendo(sp?). My largest job is to act as a sounding board and a reflector. People tell me stuff, durning meetings and annoucements I repeat them (after some verification). There is more, but I think you (et. al) get the point. Best Regards, Jessem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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