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Date:      Mon, 01 Feb 1999 05:06:59 -0800
From:      David Greenman <dg@root.com>
To:        Greg Black <gjb@comkey.com.au>
Cc:        Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>, FreeBSD Questions <questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: Excessive collisions on Ethernet 
Message-ID:  <199902011307.FAA02115@implode.root.com>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:37:40 %2B1000." <19990201123740.27312.qmail@alpha.comkey.com.au> 

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   Anything less than 50% collision rate is okay and doesn't reduce the
throughput significantly. All of the numbers below are in the noise.

-DG

David Greenman
Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

>> >> In the last few days I've noticed a really high number of collisions
>> >> on my Ethernet.  There are only 5 machines on the network, 3 of which
>> >> are barely active, yet I see:
>> >>
>> >> (allegro, running 2.2.6-STABLE)
>> >> ed0   1500  <Link>      00.00.c0.44.a5.68 43729816    45 43861788    12 977828
>> >> ed0   1500  widecast      allegro         43729816    45 43861788    12 977828
>> >
>> > That's only 1.1%.
>> 
>> That's high for a small network.
>
>Well, that's not my understanding.  I'd have considered anything
>from 0.1% to 2.0% to be reasonable.
>
>> >> (freebie, running 4.0-CURRENT)
>> >> Name  Mtu   Network       Address            Ipkts Ierrs    Opkts Oerrs  Coll
>> >> ed2   1500  <Link>      00.80.48.e6.a0.61 11976144    12 13389307     0 988340
>> >> ed2   1500  widecast      freebie         11976144    12 13389307     0 988340
>> >
>> > And that's only 3.9% -- it's worse than allegro, but not by a
>> > significant margin for the relatively small amount of traffic.
>> > On my Ethernet, I have machines that report 0.01%, 9.6%, 0.7%,
>> > 0.04% and 0.4%.  The outlier is a machine that has been up a few
>> > hours and was used for a large file transfer which blew its
>> > average out of the water -- it'll be back to about 1% as time
>> > goes by.
>> 
>> Then you have problems too.
>
>I don't perceive any problems.  And I'm hard pressed to believe
>that an Ethernet that runs at pretty much its rated speed and
>has collisions below 1% for all the significant data has
>problems -- but maybe that's a matter of different opinions.
>
>> > I just did some 10 to 15 MB file transfers with NFS on my LAN (I
>> > don't have FTP set up), and saw collision rates ranging from 25%
>> > to 35% for those periods.  I'd say that was pretty normal, given
>> > the way that Ethernet works. 
>> 
>> No, that's way too high.  Genuine collisions happen on an Ethernet
>> when two systems want to send a packet within a very small time
>> window: first they look and listen, and if nothing is there, they
>> send.  If two send at pretty much *exactly* the same time, there will
>> be a collision, from which they recover.
>
>Surely an ftp transfer involves plenty of packets going in
>*both* directions and so can be expected to produce a fair
>number of collisions?
>
>> If only one machine is sending at a time, there won't be collisions.
>> If only a few are sending, there won't be many collisions.  In
>> general, you can consider 1% collisions to be an acceptable number.
>
>I reported 1% collisions above, but you said I had problems.
>I'm not sure what level of collisions you feel represents a
>problem.  As I understand the way it works, errors are a problem
>but collisions are ok in some (smallish) numbers.
>
>> There's another thing of interest in this picture: in the example I
>> showed above, collisions were at 40%.  At this level, traffic on an
>> Ethernet is becoming highly congested.  Yet I got a transfer rate of
>> just under 1 MB/s for the transfer, which suggests to me that the
>> statistics may be bogus.  A thing that just occurs to me is that it's
>> always the ed driver that reports so many collisions, whereas the
>> others don't.  What kind of Ethernet board are you using?
>
>Here are some data from my Ethernet:
>
>maxim         up 73+01:12,     0 users,  load 0.05, 0.07, 0.07
>alice         up 30+06:32,     2 users,  load 0.13, 0.09, 0.08
>alpha         up  4+03:55,     3 users,  load 0.13, 0.09, 0.03
>bravo         up  4+03:55,     0 users,  load 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
>
>Name  Mtu   Network     Address               Ipkts Ierrs     Opkts Oerrs  Coll
>ef0   1500  <link1>     00:60:08:ac:d7:1b   5781293    16  11978534    12  7189
>ef0   1500  203.9.155.2 maxim               5781293    16  11978534    12  7189
>ef0   1500  192.168.1   192.168.1.1         5781293    16  11978534    12  7189
>
>Name  Mtu   Network     Address               Ipkts Ierrs     Opkts Oerrs  Coll
>eb0   1500  <link1>     00:60:08:a8:17:5d   4898485     1   2485013     0 52390
>eb0   1500  203.9.155.2 alice               4898485     1   2485013     0 52390
>eb0   1500  192.168.1   192.168.1.2         4898485     1   2485013     0 52390
>
>Name  Mtu   Network       Address            Ipkts Ierrs    Opkts Oerrs  Coll
>xl0   1500  <Link>      00.10.4b.18.1f.b9    25057     0    26207     0  4340
>xl0   1500  192.168.1     alpha              25057     0    26207     0  4340
>
>Name  Mtu   Network       Address            Ipkts Ierrs    Opkts Oerrs  Coll
>xl0   1500  <Link>      00.10.4b.18.1f.a8    15808     0     8428     0     2
>xl0   1500  192.168.1     bravo              15808     0     8428     0     2
>
>maxim is an old 486-33 running BSD/OS-3.1 with a 3C509, alice is
>a Pentium-166 running BSD/OS-3.1 with a 3C900, alpha and bravo
>are Celeron-300A's running FreeBSD-2.2.8-Release with 3C900B's.
>The errors on maxim were from the time when it booted and the
>rest of the LAN was out to lunch.  The others all booted more
>recently on to a live network.  The experiments I tried with the
>NFS copies were between alpha and alice and bumped alpha's
>collisions from virtually zero to the present figure.
>
>> > The more interesting statistics are the overall figures over time,
>> > and the ones you give at the start aren't too bad.  Yes, freebie is
>> > a bit high -- but 4% compared with 1% is not a big factor,
>> > especially with the fairly low total amount of traffic.  I'd watch
>> > it for a bit longer before deciding it was a real problem.  After
>> > all, if you're getting 1 MB/s on a 10 Mb/s LAN, you're doing pretty
>> > well :-)
>> 
>> Well, the values for freebie are now:
>> 
>> Name  Mtu   Network       Address            Ipkts Ierrs    Opkts Oerrs  Coll
>> ed2   1500  <Link>      00.80.48.e6.a0.61 16493376    34 21501269     0 2326175
>> ed2   1500  widecast      freebie         16493376    34 21501269     0 2326175
>> 
>> Since yesterday, that's 8 million more output packets and 1.3 million
>> collisions.  That suggests that something might be getting worse.
>
>Yes, it does look as though it's getting worse.  You may indeed
>have a fault somewhere.  I'd certainly check the cables first,
>and try swapping some of them around before pulling cards from
>machines.  (I have to pull video cards from five machines
>tomorrow to swap them for something that works with FreeBSD, so
>I'm a bit jaundiced about pulling cards at the moment :-) )
>
>Greg
>
>-- 
>Greg Black <gjb@acm.org>
>
>
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