Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 19:49:47 +1000 From: Stephen McKay <syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au> To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Sysctl variables Message-ID: <199710020949.TAA08205@troll.dtir.qld.gov.au> In-Reply-To: <199710020837.BAA24945@usr08.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Thu, 02 Oct 1997 08:37:35 %2B0000" References: <199710020837.BAA24945@usr08.primenet.com>
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On Thursday, 2nd October 1997, Terry Lambert wrote:
>An idea can be good, even if it
>originated with USL (not everyone at USL is the moron that the BSD
>camps would seem to have us believe).
Come on! It's fun to toss rocks at USL for being a bunch of duffers. Just
look at the SysV IPC stuff for a crock that was whacked in in a hurry, and
never removed for a proper burial. Look how long they held on to 14 char
file names and slow file systems. Remember that awful shell layers stuff
that was supposed to be better than BSD job control! And who can forget
the original ulimit? USL's halfwit answer to BSD quotas.
But honestly, I don't bag run levels (or even run states) because USL got
there first. I bag them because I think they deserve it.
>> On the other hand, there's no reason why the occasional superior item can't
>> be imported. Digital Unix has a ps command that supports both syntax styles.
>> I can use "ps -ef" or "ps axl" any time I like. This stuff I'll help with.
>
>I use "-gax". If the "no '-' convention is used to distinguish them,
>there will be a lot of losers...
*giggle* Puzzled by the 'g' in your command I checked the source.
case 'g':
break; /* no-op */
Did you add that one? :-)
OK, it's a bummer if you already use the '-' prefix with BSD. That makes
the hybrid less attractive, and I suppose "ps" would check to see if it is
running as "s5ps" before using the SysV command syntax. I would still be
happy to see the DEC variant imported anyway. Us oldies still use ps and
tar without '-', and newbies probably try 'ps -ef' anyway.
>Palladioum, from Project Athena at MIT. The only real problem with it
>is that it soes not specify a general queue management subsystem upon
>which it is layered. Garrett Wollman and I happen to agree on printing
>models (from conversations of 3 or more years ago).
It's not a port yet. Is the source easy to get? Web searching got me hits
on chemical engineering processes, rock music, and role playing games. :-(
Yes, I even tried it spelt "palladioum" and got a Greek hotel, and something
that sounded catchy but was actually very dull called "Gretchen goes to the
Internet". I suppose the Internet is still the future, not the present...
>> All those variant symlinks and stuff just made things pretty much
>> impossible to get right. You couldn't stay in one universe and do it all;
>> you had to pop from one to the other to get a useful set of features working.
>
>Implementation details. Really. Consider a "Linux ABI Universe" on a
>FreeBSD system, and the freedom to mix binary types without inheritance
>of "/compat/<ABITYPE>" in the system call table per ABI...
The idea of a Linux ABI Universe that has some programs I want to use while
not having other programs I want to use is 1) a likely event, and 2) a pain.
If you are proposing the sort of either/or dual universe that Pyramid had,
then I am completely opposed. The current linux emulator does a good job
for me with minimal file system aberration.
>The lack of (effectively) "logical name tables" is what is screwing you.
Are you suggesting something with a Plan 9 flavour where each process sees
a different file system name space? Interesting idea, but too radical to
wedge into FreeBSD and still call it FreeBSD.
Stephen.
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