Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 07:23:10 -0500 From: Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dead slow update servers Message-ID: <f7d8acd6-6adb-2b4b-38ef-dc988d7d96a7@denninger.net> In-Reply-To: <87v9w58apd.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87sgrbi3qg.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190712171910.GA25091@neutralgood.org> <871ryuj3ex.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <CAGLDxTW8zw2d%2BaBGOmBgEhipjq6ocn536fH_NScMiDD7hD=eSw@mail.gmail.com> <874l3qfvqw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190714011303.GA25317@neutralgood.org> <87v9w58apd.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
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This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030502070409030609000708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/14/2019 00:10, hw wrote: > "Kevin P. Neal" <kpn@neutralgood.org> writes: > >> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 05:39:51AM +0200, hw wrote: >>> ZFS is great when you have JBODs while storage performance is >>> irrelevant. I do not have JBODs, and in almost all cases, storage >>> performance is relevant. >> Huh? Is a _properly_ _designed_ ZFS setup really slower? A raidz >> setup of N drives gets you the performance of roughly 1 drive, but a >> mirror gets you the write performance of a titch less than one drive >> with the read performance of N drives. How does ZFS hurt performance? > Performance is hurt when you have N disks and only get the performance > of a single disk from them. There's no free lunch.=C2=A0 If you want two copies of the data (or one p= lus parity) you must write two copies.=C2=A0 The second one doesn't magically= appear.=C2=A0 If you think it did you were conned by something that is cheating (e.g. said it had written something when in fact it was sitting in a DRAM chip) and, at a bad time, you're going to discover it was cheating. Murphy is a SOB. > Mirroring the N disks would require another N disks, which you don't > have. > > "Performance" isn't much better defined as "properly designed" here. I= n > practise, I prefer a hardware RAID5 with N disks over a raidz with N > disks and a RAID10 over a RAID5. Unfortunately, in practise, the numbe= r > of disks is limited because they aren't cheap and because only so many > disks can be connected to a machine without further ado while there is = a > certain requirement for storage capacity. Reality is not proper > designed :/ > > > What do you do when you put FreeBSD on a server that has a hardware RAI= D > controller which doesn't do JBOD? Use ZFS on the RAID? Throw said controller in the trash and get a proper one. Raid controllers were very useful a decade ago when ZFS was trouble-ridden and the controller's firmware was less-so.=C2=A0 Now it's = the other way around. And whether you do your Raid in hardware or software Raidz is Raidz. I binned the last of the hardware RAID adapters in my production machines roughly five years ago.=C2=A0 ZFS got to be faster and more-reli= able than they were. --=20 Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net <mailto:karl@denninger.net> /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------ms030502070409030609000708 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC DdgwggagMIIEiKADAgECAhMA5EiKghDOXrvfxYxjITXYDdhIMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGL MQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEQMA4GA1UECAwHRmxvcmlkYTESMBAGA1UEBwwJTmljZXZpbGxlMRkw FwYDVQQKDBBDdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgTExDMRgwFgYDVQQLDA9DdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgQ0ExITAf BgNVBAMMGEN1ZGEgU3lzdGVtcyBMTEMgMjAxNyBDQTAeFw0xNzA4MTcxNjQyMTdaFw0yNzA4 MTUxNjQyMTdaMHsxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRAwDgYDVQQIDAdGbG9yaWRhMRkwFwYDVQQKDBBD 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