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Date:      Sun, 4 Mar 2012 19:38:51 +0100
From:      Nikola =?utf-8?B?UGF2bG92acSH?= <nzp@riseup.net>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: sysinstall
Message-ID:  <20120304183851.GA7221@sputnjik.localdomain>
In-Reply-To: <CABE=bRPJ1KJHnyig+TScJf68vjHeTRbHYepjrAmwTJZWA8CtGw@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <CABE=bRMwxrqhjQP2+h==bVkkRaLch6HLp0tdz+QJOuk4nrSBoA@mail.gmail.com> <CABE=bRPJ1KJHnyig+TScJf68vjHeTRbHYepjrAmwTJZWA8CtGw@mail.gmail.com>

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On Sun, Mar 04, 2012 at 07:24:23PM +1030, David Walker wrote:
> Nikola Pavlović nzp at riseup.net
> > If you did it the normal way
> 
> Please define normal.
> 
> As per the way you do it? Surely that's not what you mean right?
> 
> As per the handbook?
> As per the man pages?

Believe it or not, reading my answer when it came back through the list
that was my thought too ('Damn, I should have been clearer what "normal"
means). :)  In this particular case 'normal' meant 'as per what
bsdinstall suggested'.

> 
> As per the way I usually do it?
> I'm new here so I don't have a normal way other than spending hours
> reading documentation ... and telling myself that everything that goes
> wrong is probably my fault.
> That's my normal way when I'm using new software.
> 

Well, if you do everything the docs tell you to, then there is no reason
to think it's your fault.

> That's also my normal way when I'm familiar with something.
> Please tell me if that methodology is not as good as yours ...
> 
> > with bsdinstall then I guess everything
> > would install correctly.
> 
> I guess that also.
> Please read man sysinstall for me and point out why I should be
> guessing whether or not system utilities are intended to function as
> described.

I agree completely.  This is a case of the 'no documentation is better
than wrong documentation' rule.  The Handbook and man page should
clearly point out that sysinstall doesn't work with the new distribution
packaging.  At any rate, once you step into 9.x land you should
forget about sysinstall.  Hey, a mailing list is *a kind of*
documentation too. ;)

> Replies to the list are fine.
> 
> >  But anyway, you can use the other methods
> > mentioned in the handbook.
> 
> ... and anyway, if cp(1) fails I can use dump(8) instead.
> Problem solved.

I don't understand why you are dumping your frustration on me.  I
assure you I'm not responsible for documentation. :)  And cp/dump analogy
is a bit flawed, they are different tools for different jobs, while the
other methods of installing the ports tree are just using a few
different tools that are *meant* for the job.

> 
> >  Doing it with
> 
> > # portsnap fetch extract
> 
> > seems the most straight forward way to me.
> 
> Sysinstall seems the most straight forward way to me.
> 
> It might be of interest to you that after spending an hour or so with
> sysinstall I proceeded to spend an hour or so with portsnap before it
> appeared to work.

What was the problem?

> My undocumented experience with it and what you apparently consider
> are normal and/or straight forward, seem, under the circumstances, of
> no import.
> 
> If you want to espouse an opposing view without explanation or
> ridicule my methodology, knock yourself out but please do it like I'm
> your friend.

Um, what?  What opposing view?  Ridicule?!  Whatisthisidonteven...

> A simple "use portsnap you clown" probably would have done it for me
> and put a smile on my face.

Why would I call you a clown if I don't think you are one?  I don't
usually ridicule strangers, but when I do, I make sure there's a reason
for ridicule.

> In my experience that's the "normal" and "most straight forward" way
> someone who respects me might approach this ...
> 

OK, here goes: (in Nelson Muntz's voice) Haha, you clown, that's what
you get for believing what documentation says.  Use a magnetized needle
and a steady hand you buffoon!

There.  I respect! :)


-- 
Laissez Faire Economics is the theory that if
each acts like a vulture, all will end as doves.




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