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Date:      Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:28:57 -0600 (CST)
From:      Karl Denninger  <karl@mcs.net>
To:        jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Cc:        dg@root.com, karl@mcs.net, spork@super-g.com, tqbf@enteract.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Blacklisting and being "asked" to deinstall FreeBSD - you heard that right!
Message-ID:  <199702060128.TAA22263@Jupiter.Mcs.Net>
In-Reply-To: <24999.855189678@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 5, 97 04:41:18 pm

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> > representing us called you until just a couple of minutes ago. Jordan is not
> > representing the core team if he has told you to do the above, and he does
> > not have the support of any of us in this issue.
> 
> It's also not what I told Karl, but he will slant things as he will.
> I suggested he might want to seek other alternatives if we were such
> cretins in his eyes (his letter have hardly been complimentary up to
> now, let's put it that way) and that OpenBSD seemed to have a security
> policy more in-line with his own demands.

I need a tape recorder on my phone calls.

You're lying Jordan.  I already caught one lie when I spoke with John Dyson.
Now I have (at least) two.

You made it VERY clear that either I play by YOUR rules or forget playing 
at all.  You represented this as the position of the ENTIRE core team.
You tried to play the injunction game, and I asked you how you intended to 
enforce that -- at which point you stated that you couldn't (which is 
obvious).  You also played the "go play with Theo" game too, which I also 
refused to do.

I asked you multiple times about your intent during the few minutes we were
on the phone, and even STARTED with the statement that if you just called to
bitch I had no reason to continue.  On the third or forth iteration of that
the call was terminated as it was obvious that nothing further remained to
be discussed.

You lied about John Dyson's position on the issues; I talked to him
IMMEDIATELY after you hung up.  He said in no uncertain terms that he
did not share the opinion you expressed to me, and further, that you had 
no business representing his opinion to ANYONE at ANY TIME, and in fact,
that nobody other than John himself had any business doing that.

> I still feel that way.  However, I do not see why Karl feels so
> compelled to discuss all of this in inappropriate mailing lists like
> this one, and I think that it really does need to go to -chat RIGHT
> NOW to borrow some caps from Karl or see the rest of this thread
> filtered for abusing the mailing list charter.

Oh, right.  Now you're being censorious about this.

> To most folks who've been forced to endure this so far, it's just
> unwelcome noise and lots of it.  I don't need it, you don't need it,
> core doesn't need it and I daresay that Karl doesn't need it.
> 
> 					Jordan

Misrepresentation needs to be corrected when it occurs.

You're misrepresenting the conversation.  Severely.

I'm done.  I won't respond to this thread again, but I will go forward with
my own mirroring and parallel track unless the core convinces me otherwise
in PRIVATE communication.  

So you get your wish -- no more discussion on -current.  Not that its
relavent.

--
-- 
Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity
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