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Date:      Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:50:44 -0800
From:      "Chris H" <portmaster@BSDforge.com>
To:        <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Vote: making wayland=on default
Message-ID:  <9142f3e2938c84bd838b3764197226be@udns.ultimatedns.net>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8273.1513790023.81098.freebsd-ports@freebsd.org>

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On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:13:43 +0000 <freebsd-ports-owner@freebsd=2Eorg> said

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 16:23:59 +0000 "Johannes Lundberg" <johalun0@gmail=2Ecom>
said

> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Chris H <portmaster@bsdforge=2Ecom> wrote:
> > On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:20:20 +0000 "Johannes Lundberg"
> <johalun0@gmail=2Ecom>
> > said
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> I want to suggest that we enable wayland by default=2E In current state
> >> having some parts of wayland in ports is basically useless the
> >> end-users themselves re-build gtk30 and mesa-libs with wayland
> >> enabled=2E
> >>
> >> libwayland-egl=2Eso from mesa-libs and the extra libraries and headers
> >> from gtk30 adds like a few KB, a drop in the ocean compared to xorg
> >> packages=2E (might be something more that I missed)
> >>
> >> Personally I see no reason not to make it default on, even with
> >> flavors coming up=2E For any Desktop user (as well as embedded devices
> >> like IVI-systems and whatnot), Wayland is the future=2E There's no
> >> escaping that=2E
> >>
> >> Wayland has been quite usable on FreeBSD for over a year now but
> >> access to it is limited due to the extra efforts required to use it=2E
> >>
> >> If we are to compare with the other guys, several Linux distros are
> >> already switching to wayland-based compositors as default window
> >> server=2E
> >>
> >> What do you think?
> >
> > IMHO it's (still) too early=2E Too much other X(org) related work
> > still being completed=2E In fact, I just built a new dev box to
> > track 12 (CURRENT), and this was the first time I was not required
> > to pre generate a config file for Xorg=2E I was only required to
> > inform /usr/local/etc/X11/xorg=2Econf=2Ed/nvidia-driver=2Econf that
> > the driver was "nvidia", not "nv"=2E Everything work(s|ed) famously=2E
> > A real treat=2E I'm also a bit concerned about the progress (or lack
> > there of) on network transparency=2E
> > I (personally) could conceive it as a KERNEL OPTION, but would not
> > want to see it in the Default kernel=2E
> >
> > Well, those are *my* thoughts=2E Because you asked=2E :-)
> >
> > --Chris
> >
>=20
> Thanks for your feedback!
>=20
> Just to clarify, we're not talking about changing any defaults that
> would impact or change users' choice of desktop=2E We only want to
> enable Wayland compositors as an alternative to X (leaving X as is)=2E
>=20
> This does not break or modify anything existing=2E It does not force you
> to do anything differently=2E It simply adds a couple of libraries that
> you won't use unless you run Wayland stuff (if you install qt5/gtk30
> and mesa-libs)=2E
>=20
> The reference to Linux making it default might have been unclear=2E
> Since FreeBSD doesn't have a default desktop, it's hard to change=2E It
> is and will continue to be up to the end user what they choose to use,
> we only add more options :)
Thanks for the informative reply, Johannes=2E
So no kernel (libs/extensions)?
Hmm, gtk3=2E Why is it not possible to make the Wayland stuff a sub
package/option? I think this is the preferred track/policy anyway=2E
I do this for all the ports I currently maintain=2E IOW any DE related
stuff I install, that uses GNOME related material, will pull in gtk3,
which, as I understand you say, will ultimately pull in Weston,mesa,=2E=2E=2E
is that correct? While I understand, you indicate it's only a few Kb=2E
I think it's cruft/(unnecessary)overhead=2E Which, in and of itself
seems insignificant=2E But in the "big picture", and over many (100's)
of builds/installations, is *not* insignificant=2E This also dismisses
the security related work, maintaining extra un(used|needed) material=2E
I suppose some will think that I'm just being nit-picky=2E But IMHO
I'm not=2E This sort of thing, if overlooked, *does* affect the bottom
line=2E

Thanks again, Johannes!

P=2ES=2E I have nothing against Wayland=2E I'm just not ready to run it
on anything "production" related, just yet=2E :-)

--Chris

>=20
> >>
> >>
> >> /Johannes
> >
> >
>>





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