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Date:      Thu, 25 Aug 2011 01:24:51 -0300
From:      Mario Lobo <lobo@bsd.com.br>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Cc:        Evan Busch <antiequality@gmail.com>
Subject:   Re: A quality operating system
Message-ID:  <201108250124.51558.lobo@bsd.com.br>
In-Reply-To: <CAC1X_0bs-Bg1VDiaTnXUifGfPKbtAibH+zfxV8=RPCMHJKNLVw@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <CAC1X_0bP8SeyqMaR68AQPMzT+r-isv4h0bJPdtaF3377bQ+ajQ@mail.gmail.com> <16851_1313817220_4E4F4284_16851_6517_1_D9B37353831173459FDAA836D3B43499C521886E@WADPMBXV0.waddell.com> <CAC1X_0bs-Bg1VDiaTnXUifGfPKbtAibH+zfxV8=RPCMHJKNLVw@mail.gmail.com>

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Hi Evan;

Please allow me some comments.

On Wednesday 24 August 2011 23:02:18 Evan Busch wrote:
> I didn't expect this much response.

That's a bit naive and shows how much you don't know this list.
 
>  Some interesting stuff:

Here, this is mostly the case. Even the trolls are so.

> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 1:49 AM, Test Rat <ttsestt@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There is an ongoing discussion on arch@ about this.
> > 
> >  http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arch/2011-August/011412.html
> 
> This is an excellent discussion. Thank you.
> 

You bet! Full of technical details and concrete arguments.


> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Dave Pooser
> 
> <dave-freebsd@pooserville.com> wrote:
> > My own take:
> > 
> > 1) I really don't see the Handbook as all that great. It's
> 
> Every professional documentarian I've encountered agrees with you.
> It's inconsistent, wordy, and has no concept of the order of
> introduction of its concepts. No professional software package would
> ship with documentation this bad. The multiple grammatical errors only
> enhance the sense of its fundamentally confused nature as a document.
> 

Well, I think the handbook has got its name wrong. To me, it should have been 
called handybook. What you're saying sounds more like you wanted the handbook 
to be a usage tutorial, which it's NOT what it is supposed to be. If you put 
micro$oft's docs into this picture, prepare you wallet for tons of books. And 
in microsoft's case, it has an obligation to take you by the hand, and IT 
DOESN'T !.


I've been using FBSD since 2.2.8. When I first heard of it, I first did my 
homework: Googled for its history, its architecture, its inner workings, 
compatibility, etc.. (all of these are IN the handbook, by the way!) and 
opinions/usage by others. When I went to the handbook for the first time (not 
straight to it but by chance while googling for some "solution"), I was 
already a user for a good while. I already knew what FreeBSD was about, so 
whatever I found on the handbook was already familiar to me!.

The only time I resort straight to the handbook is to the hardware 
compatibility list whenever I'm thinking of buying something new for the 
server/desktop, but BEFORE I actually buy it.

For everything else, man pages and the lists are my lord and my shepard.

I think Polytropon put it very well:

"In most cases, documentation requires you to have a minimal
clue of what you're doing. There's terminology you simply
have to know, and concepts to understand in order to use
the documentation."


> 
> As far as people proving my point about the BSD community being
> reactionary:
> 
> (1)

[snip..]

Let's ponder over this in a rational and cold way.

First: You never mentioned in your post for how long you have been using 
FreeBSD or if you have even used it at all, which its obvious simply by lack 
of specific details, so your critique looses the "by experience" tag from the 
start. That's a no-no for this list, which will not measure distances to help 
people that already tried to help themselves.

Second, throughout your post, it sounds like your thoughts sprung up, not from 
your own quest and research, but from somebody (Ron) who "is completely pro-
Linux and pro-Windows, and against FreeBSD" (hummm...) and that is "the 
biggest UNIX fanatic I know"(100x hummm...). And Ron's millage with FreeBSD is 
never mentioned also, so that kinda drops the critique's "credibility" tag to 
the floor. 

Last, suppose you issue a general invitation for people to go over to your 
house for a free dinner, with food that you know (because you helped in 
preparing it!) in your heart and taste to be excellent, well prepared  and 
nutritious. And all of a sudden I storm at your door and yell for all the 
guests that already know what you know about the food, without even tasting 
anything, that a "very good and knowledgeable" friend of mine told me that the 
kitchen is as dirty as hell, the food tastes terrible and that all the guests 
will get diarrhea and probably die if they eat anything.

What would you do?

-- 
Mario Lobo
http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br
FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio.... YET!!] (99% winblows FREE)



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