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Date:      Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:47:31 +0200
From:      Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To:        rotel@indigo.ie, dyson@iquest.net, joelh@gnu.org
Cc:        imp@village.org, dkelly@hiwaay.net, rabtter@aye.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: I want to break binary compatibility.
Message-ID:  <19980827224731.61006@follo.net>
In-Reply-To: <199808272016.VAA01420@indigo.ie>; from Niall Smart on Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 09:16:13PM %2B0000
References:  <19980825154320.29030@follo.net> <199808272016.VAA01420@indigo.ie>

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On Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 09:16:13PM +0000, Niall Smart wrote:
> On Aug 25,  3:43pm, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> } Subject: Re: I want to break binary compatibility.
> > On Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 10:36:24PM +0000, Niall Smart wrote:
> > > On Aug 24,  1:20am, "John S. Dyson" wrote:
> > > > Try modifying your system so that one of the flags bits is required to
> > > > run a program.  It would the require both the flags bit and the executable
> > > > bit.  Make sure the system cannot allow anyone but root set the chosen
> > > > flags bit.  Maybe you could use the immutable flag, for this so that you
> > > > get theoretical immutability along with the ability to run code.  You
> > > > might want to relax the restriction for root, but maybe not (depending
> > > > on how your admin scheme is setup.)
> > > 
> > > None of these hacks achieve security.   You, of all people, should
> > > know better.  The original poster should figure out how they are
> > > breaking in and close the hole, obfuscation schemes like the above
> > > are a waste of time.
> > 
> > As I see it, this is not an obfuscation scheme - it is a security
> > layer blocking anybody but root from creating runnable programs (or,
> > if you are running at a higher secure-level, block anybody from
> > creating runnable programs).
> 
> You're basically trying to disable chmod +x for anyone but root,
> but to do that properly you have to audit every program the user
> has permission to execute and each library which those programs
> use.  It's _far_ easier to understand how they are getting in.

Eh?  What?  You don't have to audit anything - you just add a check
for this in the places in the kernel where you start an executable.
And we were talking of a new flag, not a change to the mode
structure...

This effectively deny the user the possibility of creating new
executables; if you also limit the possibility of setting the flag to
only be at low securelevel, you have removed the possibility of
creating new executables even with root access.  Clearly a security
win in my book, and has _nothing_ to do with obscurity.

Eivind.

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