Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:11:45 +1000 From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: joel2a@yahoo.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: installation doesn't work right with X and Netscape Message-ID: <20010613201145.R26132@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010612014317.00cc33a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>; from joel2a@yahoo.com on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:53:35AM -0400 References: <4.2.2.20010612014317.00cc33a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
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On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:53:35AM -0400, joel2a@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Well after trying to install freebsd about 7 times I'm giving up and
> installing Suse Linux!
Good on you. We all have to find what we are comfortable with, and you
seem to be progressing well down that path. In time, as you gain more
confidence, you will probably try many systems. Some will be easier or
harder to install, and they will all have different performance
characteristics. What is important to you will vary from time to time,
and there's no shame in that.
> Now after freebsd was installed I launched the KDE and found out that
> Netscape would not work.
> Netscape said "bus error (core dumped)" everytime!
I found this too after installing FreeBSD 4.2. So I searched the
FreeBSD-Questions list archives, and found that others had had
the same problem. One person had fixed it by removing another
installed package, some plugin. I found I'd installed the flash
plugin which I didn't need, and when I removed that Netscape worked fine.
This is not a real solution, for that you'd need to write to
FreeBSD-Questions, but with a quick partial search of the archives
I fixed it good enough for my own purposes. One day I'll spend more
time searching the -questions archives and get to the bottom of it.
Of course, you could do the same yourself if you wanted to.
> But for now my conclusion is that until freebsd gets a better installation
> system it is NOT as easy as the HYPE says it is.
Oh? I'm not aware of any hype saying FreeBSD is easy. In my personal
view, FreeBSD is not meant to be a beginner's system. It is a high
performance server operating system, that can be a fine desktop after
expert configuration. By default it's a lean mean server with no
unwanted frills, but with a universe of options that can be added on by
one who knows what they want.
Though some disagree, I would hate to see an installation so foolproof
that it gave the people who are not ready for FreeBSD the false
impression that it is supposed to be easy. Not that it should be made
unnecessarily hard though. For example, if you cannot get your head
around the disk partitioning concepts and you can't or won't read and
follow instructions, you will be a lot more productive if you let
an expert set up the system for you and begin your learning after that,
with their guidance. If you find the text-based menu system totally
off-putting because it's not clicky pictures, then you're going to be
miserable later when you discover that most of your time in FreeBSD
you'll be typing strange characters at the command line, GUI or no GUI.
I usually recommend people know a bit about unix and PC hardware before
trying FreeBSD. I find that people who have not used operating systems
of at least two different vendors in the past are likely to hold
confusing assumptions about what an operating system is, which they
have to overcome before progressing with FreeBSD. That's quite hard to do.
I use FreeBSD for teaching people general unix. The system is installed
and configured specifically for their needs, and the training is
structured in such a way that they enjoy success before tackling more
complex tasks. There is quite a lot to learn before touching on
anything specific to BSD or whatever. When they reach junior
administrator level, they have a pretty good basic understanding of
unix systems in general and FreeBSD in particular, but they are still
nowhere near the point where I would have them install a system alone.
Users don't need to know half of what system administrators know.
With that in mind, for the isolated home user trying FreeBSD as a first
unix, the task is tremendously difficult considering you have to
successfully install the bloody thing before trying your first unix
command. It's all backwards. From the viewpoint of an educator, that
method of learning FreeBSD is an unsound practice to put it mildly.
Nevertheless we have here, reading this email right now, hundreds of
FreeBSD users who have done just that. Somehow they managed, through a
combination of tenacity, learning skill, and sheer good luck, to pull
it all together. That's not how it's meant to be. If you have travelled
that painful road and come out the other side, you're amazing, you can
do anything! You might have got there quicker if you'd got yourself
some background first and had a well set up machine to start with, and
you would have arrived here with fewer war wounds, but hey, you're here
now and wiser for the experience. Most raw beginners aren't so lucky.
Nobody should be afraid to try another operating system for a while,
especially if it is going to help you to learn stuff that you can
transfer to FreeBSD later on. There are a number of more Microsoft-like
unix style systems that are specifically (exclusively?) targeted at the
desktop user. They are easy to install and use (provided you have
exactly the hardware and usage requirements that they predict), and
they have their purpose. FreeBSD happens to have an entirely different
purpose, and that is why I like it so much.
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
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