Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 01:50:08 +0000 From: Steve Wills <swills@freebsd.org> To: Daniel Eischen <deischen@freebsd.org> Cc: Garrett Wollman <wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu>, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: login.conf --> UTF-8 Message-ID: <20140403015008.GB51052@mouf.net> In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.1404022125340.12744@sea.ntplx.net> References: <201404022206.s32M6DD4090396@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> <1396479395.2280.21.camel@powernoodle.corp.yahoo.com> <20140403011202.GA51052@mouf.net> <Pine.GSO.4.64.1404022125340.12744@sea.ntplx.net>
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On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 09:31:08PM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Thu, 3 Apr 2014, Steve Wills wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 03:56:35PM -0700, Sean Bruno wrote: > >> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 18:06 -0400, Garrett Wollman wrote: > >>> In article <1396457629.2280.2.camel@powernoodle.corp.yahoo.com>, > >>> sbruno@freebsd.org writes: > >>> > >>>> I'd like to make this change to login.conf for default installs. > >>>> > >>>> This removes some amount of hackery in the ports system that is working > >>>> around our lack of UTF-8 in the base. > >>> > >>> I'm not sure what the connection is here. Surely the ports system > >>> runs with the locale of the user running "make" (which in my case is > >>> going to be "C"). Any port that requires a specific locale to build > >>> properly needs to be setting that locale explicitly. > >>> > > > > You'd think so, but that's not what's happening. What's happening is the > > software builds as long as the locale isn't C. Hence, ugly hacks like this: > > > > http://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/Mk/bsd.ruby.mk?annotate=348863#l257 > > > > Why? Because the people writing it have never encountered a system where LANG > > isn't set or is set to C. Yes, it's a bug in their software. No, they never > > have and never will encounter it. Because every other operating system sets > > LANG to whatever the user specifies. And so they have no interest in fixing it, > > because neither they nor any one they know will ever encounter it, and even if > > you report it to them they will tell you it's a bug in your system for not > > having LANG specified. And I have no interest in patching it hundreds of > > times. > > > > And this is just one example. There are others, I think, that aren't ruby > > related at all. > > The first thing I do when I get a Linux system is set LANG to C. > I hate all the colorizations and incorrect ordering from ls when > LANG isn't C. So you are saying, that ports will be broken when > I set LANG back to C again? > > >> I have been informed by folks that this change I suggest would help in > >> the case of ports having to declare UTF-8 support explicitly or > >> something. I'm hand-wavy on the details and ignorant of the hacks in > >> place. I only know that I've been *told* this. > > > > I think we should join the club of asking the user, but that's more work and > > until then having a reasonable default and having people change it seems sane. > > A default is fine, but saying that ports will be broken when not > using the default is not fine. This is LANG, not a gcc/clang > machine-specific optimization that someone has set to get an > extra 0.001% improvement, but happens to break the compiler for > some ports. I suppose you're right. Ugly hacks to work around ugly hacks will stay. :) (Not that I'd planned to remove them any time soon anyway, because such a change would take a long time to propogate to all supported versions anyway.) Steve
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