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Date:      Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:08:49 +0200
From:      Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Marcus von Appen <mva@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: Port system "problems"
Message-ID:  <20120627100848.GP41054@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net>
In-Reply-To: <20120626185048.GC2540@medusa.sysfault.org>
References:  <4FE8E4A4.9070507@gmail.com> <20120626065732.GH41054@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net> <20120626092645.Horde.HytQbVNNcXdP6WQ1aMtjoMA@webmail.df.eu> <4FE96BA0.6040005@infracaninophile.co.uk> <20120626103400.Horde.8frYBVNNcXdP6XP4ZP-0deA@webmail.df.eu> <20120626084433.GJ41054@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net> <CADLFttdQ3RwhrB3Sk0UjbtT4EPW4wztPOak9KQLwR7GNyY8GZQ@mail.gmail.com> <20120626185048.GC2540@medusa.sysfault.org>

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On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 08:50:48PM +0200, Marcus von Appen wrote:
> On, Tue Jun 26, 2012, Jeremy Messenger wrote:
>=20
> > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:44 AM, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org> =
wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:34:00AM +0200, Marcus von Appen wrote:
> > >> Matthew Seaman <m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk>:
> > >>
> > >> > On 26/06/2012 08:26, Marcus von Appen wrote:
> > >> >>>> 1. Ports are not modular
> > >> >
> > >> >>> What do you mean by modular? if you are speaking about subpackag=
es it
> > >> >>> is coming,
> > >> >>> but it takes time
> > >> >
> > >> >> I hope, we are not talking about some Debian-like approach here (=
foo-bin,
> > >> >> foo-dev, foo-doc, ....).
> > >> >
> > >> > Actually, yes -- that's pretty much exactly what we're talking abo=
ut
> > >> > here. =A0Why do you feel subpackages would be a bad thing?
> > >>
> > >> Because it makes installing ports more complex, causes maintainers t=
o rip
> > >> upstream installation routines apart, and burdens users with additio=
nal tasks
> > >> to perform for what particular benefit (except saving some disk spac=
e)?
> > >>
> > >> If I want to do some development the Debian way, I would need to do =
the
> > >> following:
> > >>
> > >> - install foo-bin (if it ships with binaries)
> > >> - install foo-lib (libraries, etc.)
> > >> - install foo-dev (headers, etc.)
> > >> - install foo-doc (API docs)
> > >>
> > >> With the ports I am currently doing:
> > >>
> > >> - install foo
> >
> > I agree.
> >
> > > yes but you do not allow to install 2 packages one depending on mysql=
51 and one
> > > depending on mysql55, there will be conflicts on dependency just beca=
use of
> > > developpement files, the runtime can be made not to conflict.
> > >
> > > I trust maintainers to no abuse package splitting and do it when it m=
ake sense.
> > >
> > > In the case you give I would probably split the package that way:
> > > foo (everything needed in runtime: bin + libraries)
> > > foo-dev (everything needed for developper: headers, static libraries,=
 pkg-config
> > > stuff, libtool stuff, API docs)
> > > foo-docs (all user documentation about the runtime)
> > >
> > > of course there will be no rule on how to split packages, just common=
 sense.
> >
> > Disagree. We shouldn't split for that. Have you seen how many Linux
> > users report when they can't compile one of application, just because
> > they didn't install the *-dev? A LOT (thousands and thousands)! When
> > it's A LOT then it means that it's flawed. If the upstream provide the
> > split tarballs then I do not have any problem with it.
>=20
> Seconded. For newcomers, such a package system is as complex as an
> Ubuntu or Debian (under the hood), if they "just want to do X".
>=20
> Archlinux does provide complete packages, which makes perfect sense for
> me. I still do not see any reason or argument on why we would need
> sub-packages.
>=20

Wrong archlinux provides subpackages, just no splitted the debian way. I al=
so
don't want splitting that way.

anyway.

Bap

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