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Date:      Tue, 4 Jul 2000 23:35:37 -0500 (CDT)
From:      Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net>
To:        pnmurphy@home.com (Paul Murphy)
Cc:        jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com, ler@lerctr.org, grog@lemis.com, Greg@fatcanary.com.au, stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: AMD K6-2 / 550
Message-ID:  <200007050435.XAA49189@aurora.sol.net>
In-Reply-To: <3962A197.62560B50@home.com> from Paul Murphy at "Jul 4, 2000 10:46:47 pm"

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> Joe Greco wrote:
> > Ditto.  I'm slowly but surely dumping all my Intel Pentium stuff, plus most
> > of my 486 or older stuff :-)  I've been using the ASUS P/I-P55T2P4, the
> > venerable Triton II overclocker's board, which I've got a plethora of, and
> > some P5A's.  My baseline systems are now K6/233's, ranging up to
> > K6-III-400's (which still seem to be faster than their K6-2 higher speed
> > counterparts).  Only using Intel for the SMP stuff now.  And on my laptop
> 
>  Is there a particular reason for going with the AMD's over Intel?  When
> buying computers I have always stayed with the Intel CPU's because I
> thought it was similar to Soundblaster vs. others: all the others say
> they are "Soundblaster compatible" so why not buy the real thing?
> 
> [forgive me if this sounds naive but it has been a while since I have
> bought a NEW computer]

Because sometimes, somebody else does it better, faster, and more
compatible.  And they do it cheaper, on top of it.

Intel didn't make anything faster than a 386/33.  AMD put out a 386/40 and
got it on boards that sold for $99 - that's $50 less than the Intel and
board.  My Intel 386's had a tendency to be very full of many chips and
hence seemed to run very warm and occasionally crash.  My AMD 386's worked
for years - some boards were hardly more than enough PCB to hold the slots
and RAM.  I recently decomm'd a 2.0R box that had idly been running in
the corner for half a decade or something like that.  CPU?  AMD 386/40.

Intel made a bastard selection of 486's.  They stopped at the 486/100, and
I never did see one that ran stable enough to do a buildworld, at least not
when they were still selling them (seen a few since).  The ones I had did
have an annoying tendency to run _hot_, and you could melt both the fan and
the socket if the fan seized up, which they tended to do because they ran
so damn hot.  AMD made reliable CPU's like the 486DX2/80, a 100, a 133, and
a 160...  unfortunately the 160 required a faster system clock, so I topped
out at 133.  But the 133 came in three variants, the ADW, a "standard"
unit which needed a fan/heatsink, the ADY, a unit which needed only a
heatsink, and the ADZ, a unit which could run without fan or heatsink.
Later experience shows the ADW doesn't need the fan, actually.  And all of
them were cheaper than the Intel counterparts.

Meanwhile, Intel was off doing the Pentium thing, and AMD was kicking
Intel's low-end-Pentium @$$ with their high-end 486's.  Especially when put
on a good board like an ASUS PCI/I-SP3G, the AMD CPU's excelled.  The 133
was billed as "P75 equivalentish", but actually ran better than many early
P90's I saw, mainly due to crappy chipsets on the Pentium boards.

And don't forget that Intel took a beating with the FPU bug.  Sure, I'll
take a CPU that can't do floating math correctly, and pay more.   Sure.
How many P60's, P75's, and P90's did they grind into powder, I wonder?

So then AMD started losing, for a while.  And I'm embarrassed to admit
that when the SP3G was discontinued, I actually started buying Intel
CPU's, since I could not find another good 486 board, and the AMD parts
were getting hard to find.  But we all hated the early Pentium chipsets,
and everything up to the Triton I stank.  AMD was still working on the
K5, but it just wasn't viable for reasons that escape me (maybe high
price, maybe not available soon enough, and I also am notorious for
doing swap-and-trades).  In the meantime, Intel raced along and finally
outted the Pentium Pro, and things were looking sour for AMD.  Except
the PPro didn't take off, and Intel fell behind - again - as AMD went
to town putting out faster and faster K5's and then K6's. 

Then Intel gets clobbered with the F00F thing.  Definite justification
to eradicate all those old damn Intel Pentium CPU's.

So AMD is putting out this wide range of K6's, all the way from K6/200's
to K6-III-400's, all of which work with existing boards, and do not
exhibit the monopolistic arrogance of Intel's Slot 1/2.

In the meantime, AMD was actually developing new architectures, as was
Intel, and it became more of a head-to-head race to see who could develop 
the better CPU.

So?  Here, for me, today, I find myself in a dream world.  For many/most
of the tasks I would want to assign a machine to, I don't really need any
mondo mega super server.  A good 486 would probably do...  a 486 web 
server can saturate a T1, after all.  So, I've got this plethora of ASUS
P/I-P55T2P4's, and a good supply of various AMD CPU's, and so I'm building
servers for pretty much any task.  Why?  Because I can.  :-)  The stuff is
cheaper than Intel, is backwards-compatible with legacy boards, and yet is
modern enough to offer some real horsepower.

And AMD is creaming Intel with the K7/Athlon.

AMD has historically been _very_ good to me.  The price is less, the
performance is as good as (or better), and they have historically done
more to maintain compatibility with older technology.  Why support a
company like Intel, who has repeatedly pulled stunts like Slot 1/2 in
order to maintain a "motherboard monopoly"?

The only things I'll grant w.r.t. Intel CPU is that they do SMP, and that 
I have not had many serious problems with their CPU's since about the P200
days.  Intel finally figured out how to make CPU's - a trick AMD mastered
years back.

Yeah, so I'm an AMD fan.  Sue me.  :-)
-- 
... Joe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Greco - Systems Administrator			      jgreco@ns.sol.net
Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI			   414/342-4847


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