Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:04:36 -0500 From: The Anarcat <anarcat@anarcat.dyndns.org> To: "Gary W. Swearingen" <swear@blarg.net> Cc: Antoine Beaupre <anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx>, freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: libh learning curve, etc. Message-ID: <20020405200435.GA284@lenny.anarcat.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <siadsi2cty.dsi@localhost.localdomain> References: <370BA4FE-48A2-11D6-945B-0050E4A0BB3F@anarcat.ath.cx> <siadsi2cty.dsi@localhost.localdomain>
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On Fri Apr 05, 2002 at 10:57:13AM -0800, Gary W. Swearingen wrote:
> Antoine Beaupre <anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx> writes:
>=20
> > If you ever worked on a already-started project, you would know that
> > it's much harder to document and promote code that's already written.
>=20
> Nobody expects detailed source code documentation. Almost no free
> software has that. But some current (and prospective) high-level
> documents would benefit the project. Of course, I realize that many
> people join projects for reasons other than the benefit of the project,
> and I respect that, but it seemed clear that the -libh project was
> devoting almost none of its time to Public Relations and that sort of
> thing and very much needed to be "reminded about it" (as you put it).
>=20
> As a former Linux web index maintainer, I've seen a lot of project web
> sites, and think I have a feel for their importance to the project.
> (No evidence, but a feel, nonetheless.) For instance, the early GNOME
> web site was a marvel of good, simple layout, covering all the bases
> and looking good without being flashy. And I suspect that it was
> responsible for encouraging the entry of many developers to the project.
It comes back mainly to "just do it". I'm no web designer. I can
probably work out some high-level documentation, but I feel that would
be re-inventing the wheel. The paper jkh wrote isn't that bad and it
sums up how libh is structured.
I'm trying to document libh as I go along, but it's not easy.
It's especially hard to get a clear view of the whole thing since a
lot of things are interdependant in libh.
> > I think it might be a good idea to put a tarball of a port snapshot on
> > the website thought.
>=20
> Good idea. And links to web sites for TVision and TCL and Qt (and to
> licenses to those and your own).=20
Will do.
> And links to articles like the one JKH
> did last September for the 5.0 to-do list. People can use Google, like
> I did, but you should make it easy for them. Google returned 10 pages
> on "freebsd libh" but there were maybe 5 pages of good value.
Google gives me 30 matches, but none useful as projects/libh.html. :)
=20
> > > files.
> >=20
> > That's because libh is not part of the main freebsd CVS repository.
>=20
> There's a few files there. Enough to waste 10 or 15 minutes figuring it
> out. You should say on your website what you just told me.
It's said on the website:
"CVS repository
Libh is available through anonymous CVS pserver (empty password):
cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@usw4.FreeBSD.org:/home/libh/cvs"
There are around 5 files regarding libh on the whole CVS repository:
=2E/ports/misc/libh
=2E/www/en/projects/libh.sgml,v
> > *That's* not constructive.
>=20
> Why not? I can envision a project with a separate list for such notices.
I guess so. Right now, libh's developpment isn't very fast so I don't
think it would be worth it.
> > 1- get sponsorship
> > 2- get people to work on libh
> >=20
> > The problem with [1] is that noone seems to be interested in sponsoring
> > a tool so unimportant (!). And the problem with [2] is that we need to
> > work on documentation and design documents, and to get there, we need
> > [2].
>=20
> From the looks of the list archives, you have some coders. I just
> wanted to remind them that you can generate more code by attracting more
> coders than you can by coding. Of course, personal purposes are a
> factor and you have to let yourselves spend most of your time doing what
> benefits yourself, not the project. But hopefully not 99.94% of it.
I prefer to get libh working than fight to get people working on libh
since people don't usually stay interested very long on libh. ;)
> > There was some good criticism, but I'm getting tired of seeing people
> > just pass by the page and say: "Hey, this looks like it needs some help,
> > let's complain to -libh@!". Yes the code is under-documented, yes, we
> > need some solid design documents. Thank you for reminding us.
>=20
> Forget about the code being under-documented. Document at a high level.
> Turn the JKH memo into a document that at least looks like it reflects
> the current design. Give people a few diagrams to look at. Etc.=20
I think it does reflect current design, but I can't tell for sure.
I guess I could put some snapshots of the disk editor to get some
people drooling. ;)
> I'd say the project was very lucky to get someone as willing as you were
> to work past the reaction and work hard enough to learn whether you
> wanted to be a part of the project.
Thank you,
A.
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