Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 00:55:55 +0900 From: horikawa@jp.freebsd.org To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru, nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, ru-freebsd-doc@freebsd.ru, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk Subject: Re: Replace man/ja with man/ja_JP.EUC (FDP Directory Reorganization) Message-ID: <19990527005555K.k-horik@yk.rim.or.jp> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 May 1999 04:05:12 -0700 (PDT)" <199905251105.EAA67875@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> References: <199905251105.EAA67875@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>
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I think that just making symlinks from /usr/share/man/ja_JP.EUC to
/usr/share/man/ja, from /usr/local/man/ja_JP.EUC to /usr/local/man/ja,
and etc. may be good solution.
From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami)
Subject: Re: Replace man/ja with man/ja_JP.EUC (FDP Directory Reorganization)
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 04:05:12 -0700 (PDT)
> I'm still not convinced why this is necessary in the first place. The
> transition from "ja_JP.EUC" to "ja" was a very painful one for the
> ports committers and our users. Is it really worth it?
My understanding is that, a directory name, which contains "encoding",
represents encoding of files which are placed under the directory.
For example:
(a) /usr/share/man/ja/ represents that this directory contains Japanese
manuals. But we cannot distinguish "encoding", because the name
"ja" does not contain encoding.
(b) /usr/share/man/ja_JP.EUC/ represents that this directory contains
Japanese manuals in EUC "encoding".
I guess that most people do not read /usr/share/man/* directly. They
do not take care of encoding of /usr/share/man/*. Few people who are
not satisfied with "man -k" may grep files under /usr/share/man/*
directly. They may take care of encoding of /usr/share/man/*. So, I
think that the merit is relatively low.
> * If man/ja is replaced with man/ja_JP.EUC, new FreeBSD's man command
> * can find ja_JP.EUC manuals under man/ja_JP.EUC. But it cannot show
> * Japanese online manuals, because FreeBSD's groff command and more
> * command cannot handle Japanese text now. This replace do not have
> * merit now, so I personally think that we do not have to replace man/ja
> * with man/ja_JP.EUC now.
>
> I read that we can't use ".EUC" for the chinese version anyway since
> there are more than one EUC's over there.
Sorry, I cannot understand the meanings of this sentence in your
entire article. I guess that you mention about doc/zh_{BIG5,GB}.
If so, I believe that /usr/share/man/ja/ and doc/zh_{BIG5,GB} are
independent topics.
> Does this string (".EUC" or whatever) actually mean anything, or is it
> there just to satisfy someone's sense of coherency?
This string (".EUC" or whatever) represents "encoding".
> Do we ever plan
> to support ja_JP.jisx0208 and ja_JP.jisx0201 and others as well as
> ja_JP.EUC?
I assume that the topic is supporting manual pages in JIS encoding
(ISO-2022-JP encoding) or other encodings. To support manual pages in
JIS encoding or other encodings, we need [nt]roff which support the
encoding directly or indirectly:
o we need [nt]roff which support the encoding directly, or
o we must make a wrapper for [nt]roff to convert encoding.
I have not heard that groff supports any Japanese encodings other than
Japanese EUC. Making wrapper may be easier, but it needs someone's
time.
BTW, some Japanese manuals in JIS encoding are distributed by original
authors. One example is kterm.1 (ports/japanese/kterm; Japanized
xterm). In ports/japanese/kterm, Makefile's post-install target
converts kterm.jman from JIS encoding to Japanese EUC encoding. I
believe this is most simple solution (for Japnese FreeBSD users),
because we have only /usr/X11R6/man/ja/ directory under
/usr/X11R6/man/.
If ports/japanese/kterm do not convert to EUC encoding:
o /usr/X11R6/man/ja/man1/kterm.1 is encoded in JIS encoding while
other manuals in that directory are encoded in Japanese EUC
encoding. We may live a life under this situation using wapper for
[nt]roff, but the situation that JIS encoded manuals and Japanese
EUC encoded manuals are placed in single directory is complicated.
o kterm.1 is installed in /usr/X11R6/man/ja_JP.JIS/man1/
while other manuals are installed in /usr/X11R6/man/ja/man1/ (or
/usr/X11R6/man/ja_JP.EUC/man1/). To make "man" command to show
kterm.1 may be puzzle.
> Which man page are the commands going to display if the
> user sets LANG to "ja"?
Currently, English manuals will be displayed, because FreeBSD has
"ja_JP.EUC" locale and "ja_JP.SJIS" locale, but do not have "ja"
locale. The reason why jman command displays English is that the jman
command uses setlocale() to get "valid" locale name. And jman command
thinks that "ja" is invalid locale name.
Some operating systems have "ja" locale which is alias to "ja_JP.EUC"
or "ja_JP.eucJP". And X11 which is compiled with -DX_LOCALE has "ja"
locale which is alias to "ja_JP.eucJP" (see
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/locale/locale.alias). I do not know whether this
is a good idea or a bad idea. I guess that it may be for backward
compatibility.
> Why can't we just make a symlink from "ja_JP.EUC" to "ja"?
I think that it may be good solution, because:
o Symlink's name "ja_JP.EUC" represents that /usr/share/man/ja/
contains Japanese manuals in EUC "encoding" (same as (b)).
o ports maintainers/commiters do not have to rewrite Japanese manuals
destinations.
> I don't pretend to understand all the issues but this just looks like
> a change for the sake of the change. (Especially since you people
> started from ja_JP.EUC to begin with. :)
--
Kazuo Horikawa
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