Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 00:08:21 +0100 From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk> To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami <asami@FreeBSD.ORG> Cc: horikawa@jp.freebsd.org, ache@nagual.pp.ru, nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk, ru-freebsd-doc@freebsd.ru, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk Subject: Re: Replace man/ja with man/ja_JP.EUC (FDP Directory Reorganization) Message-ID: <19990526000821.A66841@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> In-Reply-To: <199905251105.EAA67875@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>; from Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami on Tue, May 25, 1999 at 04:05:12AM -0700 References: <19990516183643.A15766@nagual.pp.ru> <19990517160148W.horikawa@ebina.hitachi.co.jp> <199905251105.EAA67875@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>
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On Tue, May 25, 1999 at 04:05:12AM -0700, Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami wrote:
> * I understand that we need not have more than one subdirectory under
> * man/ to store Japanese online manuals.
> *
> * I think that replacing /usr/share/man/ja with /usr/share/man/ja_JP.EUC
> * could be done easily (by modification of doc/ja/man/Makefile.inc and
> * src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist). But, replacing /usr/local/man/ja with
> * /usr/local/man/ja_JP.EUC may not be easy, because this replace forces
> * ports' maintainers to rewrite manpage destinations (all pkg/PLIST
> * which contains man/ja should be modified). Mr. Asami, is this change
> * acceptable for ports team?
>
> I'm still not convinced why this is necessary in the first place. The
> transition from "ja_JP.EUC" to "ja" was a very painful one for the
> ports committers and our users. Is it really worth it?
Possibly. The reason this has come up is that I want to use directory
names like this in the doc/ CVS repository. I wasn't originally thinking
of replicating these names amongst the installed docs, but it might not
be a bad thing.
Points in favour;
1. The installation directory names and the repository directory names
will be identical, making it easier to identify what came from where.
2. The directory names should be the same as the $LC_ALL for users
using a language other than English.
3. Some languages will need multiple encodings -- Chinese, for example.
If some languages need it, you may as well do it for all of them,
for the sake of consistency.
Points against;
1. It's more work.
> * If man/ja is replaced with man/ja_JP.EUC, new FreeBSD's man command
> * can find ja_JP.EUC manuals under man/ja_JP.EUC. But it cannot show
> * Japanese online manuals, because FreeBSD's groff command and more
> * command cannot handle Japanese text now. This replace do not have
> * merit now, so I personally think that we do not have to replace man/ja
> * with man/ja_JP.EUC now.
>
> I read that we can't use ".EUC" for the chinese version anyway since
> there are more than one EUC's over there.
The options for Chinese seem to be zh_CN.EUC and zh_TW.BIG5 (see
/usr/share/locale/* on your system).
> Does this string (".EUC" or whatever) actually mean anything, or is it
> there just to satisfy someone's sense of coherency?
It's the encoding type. As shown above, some languages have different
encoding types.
> Do we ever plan
> to support ja_JP.jisx0208 and ja_JP.jisx0201 and others as well as
> ja_JP.EUC?
Eventually, yes. 'n' years down the line we'll probably switch to Unicode
(I don't know how big 'n' is in this case). Explicitly specifying the
encoding now saves us pain in the future.
And see above for languages that we will be using now that have different
encodings. Japenese is somewhat fortunate in that you can do a mechanical
translation between the .EIC and .SJIS encodings and not lose anything.
Apparently you can't do that with Chinese, and there might be other encodings
where that is the case as well.
> Which man page are the commands going to display if the
> user sets LANG to "ja"? Why can't we just make a symlink from
> "ja_JP.EUC" to "ja"?
IMHO, when the user does "make install" it should inspect the value of the
$LC_ALL (or $LANG, or whatever) to determine which specific directory the
install should be in. login.conf should be used to set the user's default,
and the SA should be free to make a symlink in that directory to a shorter
name as necessary to set another default. But the files should be installed
into a directory that completely specifies the locale name.
> I don't pretend to understand all the issues but this just looks like
> a change for the sake of the change. (Especially since you people
> started from ja_JP.EUC to begin with. :)
I wasn't around when that happened :-)
N
--
There's some milk in the fridge about to go off. . . and there it goes.
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