Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:18:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" <hoppy@appsmiths.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... Message-ID: <199501080018.SAA01186@anvil.appsmiths.com> In-Reply-To: <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Wankle Rotary Engine" at Jan 7, 95 03:49:14 pm
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:: :: I know that what I'm about to say probably won't be well received, but :: this is how I really feel, so I have to say say it: [ . . .] Man. Actually there are some good points here, and I'll chime in a couple more. o I tend to think that the notion of a bloated but friendly (barney?) installation would probably miss the mark. The installer runs it once -- it really doesn't matter how it looks, only how it works. Who are you gonna dazzle? There have got to be some better places to invest mantime than on UI for the installation. If you wanna build UI code, then build File-Manager for X. You would be helping more untrained souls with that by far. o An installer that works first-time every time should be the goal, long before building a UI for it. A wrecked cadillac is useless. Just having a nifty interface affects nothing in the problem domain, which is getting a rock-solid installation procedure. o Who is the audience if the best you can offer at the end of the installation is a shell prompt? Clearly the installer cannot be completely naive, or it won't make a hoot anyway. Keep in mind what they have to be or know to use the thing once installed. o Installations like those found under Windoze are a nightmare and a failure. I've been through so many of these cockeyed instatalltions that I now keep my autoexec.bat, config.sys, and c:/windows/*.ini files in RCS. It gets very sad if you let these friendly little installers run wild (ho, ho, ho, I'll just eat 1/2 of your 340MB disk for windozs swap). This is not a sentient goal. o One thing that *nix installers are no good at is layering. When I installed 2.0, The silly GENERICA kernel found an adaptec 1510 and decided it was a 1542 (no, that wont work), and saw my 3c509 and made it mitsumi CD-ROM (no that really won't work). This would have cratered a novice immediatly. Thank goodnes for -c (which, BTW, I only knew about by being tuned into this channel) or I would have had to yank boards. What the heck is this thing gonna look like when there are >500 devices supported? If it helps, my early attempts with Linux ate up 2 weeks before I snapped the damn thing over my knee. I think I would rather install a small, operable staging system (with only display, keyboard, floppies, Hdisk support) from floppy, and let me configure and build the kernel I want to end up with and then do the big load from CD after I get it put together. If you want to help a novice, help him with the configure step. This type of approach would also help the "stonewalling" which I saw going on in this group about how to tickle one device to see if its there without pissing off another one. It just gets harder and harder as more devices come into existance. Things are much easier if the consumer gives you some clues about what's in his box, so let 'em. o Last, but not least, try the installation by fire and sit back and learn some things. Find an old PC, zap the disk, and have the secretary or a cousin or something try the installation, and just sit back and watch. The stuff that hangs people up sometimes is amazing -- certainly to the people who are reading this group anyway. The install is gonna be harder than installing Excel. It just is. Most first-timers are gonna have to repartition their hard disks to install FreeBSD. What kind of people are going to get a new operating system off the internet, or buy a CD-rom, and try to install it themselves? It aint for the faint of heart. (You have to be at least *this* tall to ride the FreeBSD ride). The people who get this far are not going to shudder at having to do a command-line install, especially if there is enough documentation around to make them comfortable that they know what they are getting into. =============================================================================== Clay D. Hopperdietzel hoppy@appsmiths.com AppSmiths, Inc. (713) 578-0154 Houston, Texas USA Happiness is OG > 1.0500
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