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Date:      Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:27:43 -0400 (EDT)
From:      Brian Feldman <green@zone.syracuse.net>
To:        Chuck Robey <chuckr@mat.net>
Cc:        Martin Cracauer <cracauer@cons.org>, Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>, nate@mt.sri.com, osa@etrust.ru, current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: What about jdk-1.1.6 for FreeBSD-3.0-ELF ?
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.04.9810041320510.16118-100000@zone.syracuse.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.02A.9810041231320.362-100000@picnic.mat.net>

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I do understand more than you think I do. I know about kernel- and
user-land, how system calls work, etc. What I meant is: in a dynamic
library, there should be NO raw __syscall/syscall'ing, the choices of howt
o do system calls should be in the system libc. The only real
incompatibilities in the actual libraries would be compiler-specific, or
libc-specific (those *64 calls etc, for solaris only), like with
libgcc.a-compiled libs on non-GNU-cc-systems. The ACTUAL function calls,
as defined by ELF, that call functions, defined by ANSI, should not in any
differ except across architectures.

-Brian Feldman

On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Chuck Robey wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Brian Feldman wrote:
> 
> > Cheers,
> > Brian Feldman
> > 
> > On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Martin Cracauer wrote:
> > 
> > > In <199810040411.VAA25038@usr06.primenet.com>, Terry Lambert wrote: 
> > > > > I'm taking from this that not having a Motif lib in elf is dragging
> > > > > things back.  I'm totally non-suprised (I've been nagging XiG to get by
> > > > > personal favorite one done for a while now).  I would hope that, when
> > > > > someone _does_ find a vendor of Motif in ELF, there will be a quick
> > > > > announcement on the lists ... don't consider it advertising, we _need_
> > > > > this.
> > > > 
> > > > Someone needs to flush $15 on the "free" Solaris and/or UnixWare CDROM,
> > > > which has an ELF Motif library on it.
> > > 
> > > And this library won't use any system or libc calls that might be
> > > incompatible in FreeBSD?
> >
> > I don't see why a system call should be incompatible since being a shared
> > library, the system call is just a definition of a link to the true libc
> > symbol.
> 
> That's because of two things, the semantics of the libc call, and the
> way that OS calls are done.  In the semantics, I'm referring both to
> what precisely the call does, which varies sufficiently to be a major
> headache, and the number/order of arguments.  It's not standard, Brian.
> 
> The other thing, about the way that OS type calls (like, say, unlink)
> which the libc does not in itself handle are done.  The libc can't
> unlink a file, it has to pass the request to the kernel, and it does
> that by using an integer numbered thing called a syscall, where the
> kernel recognizes what's being asked of it by the number of the call,
> and never sees "unlink".  If the libc wrapper for your call thinks the
> number for the call is one thing, but the kernel thinks it's another,
> boom.
> 
> It's not just "a definition of a link to the true libc" at all.
> 
> ----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
> Chuck Robey                 | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
> chuckr@glue.umd.edu         | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
> 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1  |
> Greenbelt, MD 20770         | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current)
> (301) 220-2114              | and jaunt (NetBSD).
> ----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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