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Date:      Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:39:05 -0600
From:      Chris Moline <ugly-daemon@home.com>
To:        chat@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: System Tuning/Sysadmins
Message-ID:  <20010617093905.A20349@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net>
In-Reply-To: <20010617103922.A79022@acidpit.org>; from rch@acidpit.org on Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 10:39:22AM -0400
References:  <20010617063505.A29241@shell.monmouth.com> <20010617073505.B20171@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net> <20010617103922.A79022@acidpit.org>

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On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 10:39:22AM -0400, Robert Hough wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2001, Chris Moline wrote:
> >
> > Making the os easier to use is not a bad thing.
> 
> Agreed, but knowing old ways is a "Good Thing(tm)" as you never know
> when you'll encounter some ancient box sitting in the back of some den,
> performing old production tasks everyone now takes for granted, because
> it's been doing it so long.
True enough. Still there are so many different machines out there that you 
can't hope to know how to run them all.

> > What's wrong with using an easier to use tool?? If it does everything
> > you need then I say it's good enough
> 
> The problem isn't using the new tool, it's only knowing how to use the
> new tool. What are you going to do if for someone reason X fails to
> start and you can't get to this super-groovy gui? What happens when
> if someone deletes the useradd/adduser utilities (It's happened)?
> 
> I'm all for the snazzy new tools that are coming out. I use metatool
> under Solaris all the time, simply because typing in all those commands
> when building a new volume gets really freaking old. I can do it if I
> must though. Now, if I could just get them to use veritas instead, cause
> metatool annoys the piss out of me.
I agree with you here, sort of. I am not talking about gui tools specifically, 
jsut easier-to-use ones. I believe that it is entirely possible to create an 
easier-to-use text-mode interface. Case in point, kernel configuration. Just 
simply open lint, read through it, and maybe the handbook if it has been awhile,
then edit generic, do config/etc and voila you are done. If only everything in 
bsd could be that simple.
Also what happens if someone's wiped out the editors, or /etc?? I fail to see 
how this is different from X not working. Perhaps it's less likely for vi and 
/etc to be wrecked in some way than X?? Easier to fix??
Having said that I think you are right, knowing how to run a system is better 
than kludging with some tool and hoping it'll work. But I still think that a 
lot of things are harder than they need to be ( ie setting up ppp, sendmail ).

Chris Moline

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