Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 16:15:54 -0800 From: "Chris H" <bsd-lists@BSDforge.com> To: "Mel Pilgrim" <list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com> Cc: "Baho Utot" <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com>, <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Flavors *COMPLETELY* break the port system (synth and poudriere are useless) Message-ID: <9c19d8e0b571b363d40f8826f05f7332@udns.ultimatedns.net> In-Reply-To: <830acccf-08e6-0bd2-d5a6-db267fc53fc5@bluerosetech.com>
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On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:40:27 -0800 "Mel Pilgrim" <list_freebsd@bluerosetech=2E= com> said > On 12/5/2017 2:25 PM, Baho Utot wrote: > > Thank you for taking a perfectly good system and breaking it as well as= =20 > > making it unusable, unstable=2E=C2=A0 You just don't know of all the coun= tless=20 > > hours spent after running an update and taking a week to get it working= =20 > > again=2E >=20 > I manage (currently) 104 FreeBSD systems that are a mix of 10=2Ex and=20 > 11=2Ex, on-metal and VM=2E I use freebsd-update and poudriere=2E The biggest= =20 > issue in two years was back before I used poudriere and it was when the= =20 > default version postgresql change I had to upgrade databases (something= =20 > for which postgresql doesn't have automated tools)=2E >=20 > The last time I had a major stability problem with FreeBSD was when I=20 > had a brand new Nocona Xeon system that would get interrupt storms=20 > running 5=2Ex and had to run 6-CURRENT on it for a while because 6=2Ex=20 > introduced MSI support=2E >=20 > The closest thing to a FreeBSD failure after that was Perl upgrades=20 > exploding all over the place because there was a time when the Ports=20 > Tree didn't handle Perl upgrades gracefully=2E >=20 > Looking back at two years of stats, all of the unplanned uptime resets=20 > are associated with hypervisor or power outages=2E >=20 > Experiences will vary, and it's totally fine if FreeBSD is not your cup= =20 > of tea, but you're out of line condemning the project as a whole because= =20 > your individual experience differed=2E >=20 > > It really helps motivate all of us users to continue to have to fix=20 > > broken systems due to broken ports system and then be told how great=20 > > things are, brings us so much joy and keeps our attitude positive=2E >=20 > I really don't know what advice to offer you other than that, from my=20 > observations, there is a very high correlation between people who have=20 > chronic stability problems with FreeBSD and people who insist on not=20 > using the officially endorsed tools and methods=2E >=20 > (Cue people utterly failing to understand statistics and citing single=20 > data points in 3, 2, 1=2E=2E=2E) In all fairness, and this applies to many; One would not make a change that breaks ABI, except on previously defined, and allowed boundaries (specific versions)=2E Yet pkg was effectively dropped like a bomb=2E The affect of which spanned well out of the ports realm, and spilled quite heavily into $BASE=2E Here, now more than 2 OS releases later, we're still dealing with the aftermath=2E This caused substantial problems for *many*=2E Some of whom have moved on -- even long-time supporters, and contributors=2E In all fairness=2E Those that do not share your fairly ideal experiences, should also have a right to express their views/experiences=2E Even when you don't care to hear them=2E This is, after all, an open forum/mailing list=2E No? Nothing personal, Mel=2E Just saying=2E :) --Chris
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