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Date:      Wed, 06 Dec 2017 16:15:54 -0800
From:      "Chris H" <bsd-lists@BSDforge.com>
To:        "Mel Pilgrim" <list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com>
Cc:        "Baho Utot" <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com>, <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Flavors *COMPLETELY* break the port system (synth and poudriere are useless)
Message-ID:  <9c19d8e0b571b363d40f8826f05f7332@udns.ultimatedns.net>
In-Reply-To: <830acccf-08e6-0bd2-d5a6-db267fc53fc5@bluerosetech.com>

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On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:40:27 -0800 "Mel Pilgrim" <list_freebsd@bluerosetech=2E=
com> said

> On 12/5/2017 2:25 PM, Baho Utot wrote:
> > Thank you for taking a perfectly good system and breaking it as well as=
=20
> > making it unusable, unstable=2E=C2=A0 You just don't know of all the coun=
tless=20
> > hours spent after running an update and taking a week to get it working=
=20
> > again=2E
>=20
> I manage (currently) 104 FreeBSD systems that are a mix of 10=2Ex and=20
> 11=2Ex, on-metal and VM=2E  I use freebsd-update and poudriere=2E  The biggest=
=20
> issue in two years was back before I used poudriere and it was when the=
=20
> default version postgresql change I had to upgrade databases (something=
=20
> for which postgresql doesn't have automated tools)=2E
>=20
> The last time I had a major stability problem with FreeBSD was when I=20
> had a brand new Nocona Xeon system that would get interrupt storms=20
> running 5=2Ex and had to run 6-CURRENT on it for a while because 6=2Ex=20
> introduced MSI support=2E
>=20
> The closest thing to a FreeBSD failure after that was Perl upgrades=20
> exploding all over the place because there was a time when the Ports=20
> Tree didn't handle Perl upgrades gracefully=2E
>=20
> Looking back at two years of stats, all of the unplanned uptime resets=20
> are associated with hypervisor or power outages=2E
>=20
> Experiences will vary, and it's totally fine if FreeBSD is not your cup=
=20
> of tea, but you're out of line condemning the project as a whole because=
=20
> your individual experience differed=2E
>=20
> > It really helps motivate all of us users to continue to have to fix=20
> > broken systems due to broken ports system and then be told how great=20
> > things are, brings us so much joy and keeps our attitude positive=2E
>=20
> I really don't know what advice to offer you other than that, from my=20
> observations, there is a very high correlation between people who have=20
> chronic stability problems with FreeBSD and people who insist on not=20
> using the officially endorsed tools and methods=2E
>=20
> (Cue people utterly failing to understand statistics and citing single=20
> data points in 3, 2, 1=2E=2E=2E)
In all fairness, and this applies to many;
One would not make a change that breaks ABI, except on previously defined,
and allowed boundaries (specific versions)=2E Yet pkg was effectively dropped
like a bomb=2E The affect of which spanned well out of the ports realm, and
spilled quite heavily into $BASE=2E Here, now more than 2 OS releases later,
we're still dealing with the aftermath=2E This caused substantial problems
for *many*=2E Some of whom have moved on -- even long-time supporters, and
contributors=2E In all fairness=2E Those that do not share your fairly ideal
experiences, should also have a right to express their views/experiences=2E
Even when you don't care to hear them=2E This is, after all, an open
forum/mailing list=2E No?
Nothing personal, Mel=2E Just saying=2E :)

--Chris





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