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Date:      Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:54:41 -0700
From:      "Michael C. Shultz" <ringworm01@gmail.com>
To:        freebsd-ports@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports
Message-ID:  <200510211454.41789.ringworm01@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20051018162907.GB14192@soaustin.net>
References:  <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> <20051018160725.GB87664@isis.sigpipe.cz> <20051018162907.GB14192@soaustin.net>

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On Tuesday 18 October 2005 09:29, Mark Linimon wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 06:07:25PM +0200, Roman Neuhauser wrote:
> > > That highlights my point that IMHO we need two different
> > > functionalities: 'search' and 'browse'.  'make search' is barely
> > > adequate for searching.
> >
> > What are you missing from make search? I'll try and add it if it's
> > within reasonable bounds of complexity.
>
> e.g. searching when you don't know the exact spelling of the name.
>
> It's the "dictionary problem" -- how do you find the meaning of a word
> when you're not sure what the word is?
>
> > > We have nothing at all for browsing (unless you count reading an entire
> > > list of ports in hierarchy as 'browsing', which even an old
> > > command-line kind of guy like me thinks is crude).
> >
> > Can you define 'browsing'?
>
> "show me the ports that have something to do with the Internet"; "show
> me a list of plugins that work with Apache2".
>
> > How will the Wes' colleagues find it? You need to be able to find
> > a port to install it. If a port is required to make sense of the
> > structure, we need a bootstrap mechanism, like something in the
> > base.  Like, ls.
>
> Don't be silly.  Neither portupgrade nor cvsup are in base.  People
> pkg_install them and then they're good to go.  ls is _not_, by any
> stretch of the imagination, an adequate tool unless you already have
> a pretty good idea of what it is you're looking for.
>
> I really do not believe that anything with a UI belongs in base, and
> I believe that 'search' and 'browse', to be useful to the largest number
> of people, need to be UI-based; whether that's as applications, or from
> web pages, or more likely, both.
>
> > I would certainly prefer if we considered the fs structure to be the
> > primary interface (and treated it accordingly). I'm weird, I know.
>
> It's always going to be the 'primary' interface but if we don't build
> tools on top of it, it's simply going to limit the ports tree's usefulness
> to people who aren't as hardcore as you or I are.  fwiw, I rely extensively
> on a little script that I wrote that greps things out of the contents of
> Makefiles.  I am familiar with these kinds of tools.
>
> But, I mean, honestly, I think I can state without much fear of
> contradiction that I have as good a working knowledge of what's in the
> ports tree as anyone.  Even so, the other day I went looking to see if
> there was any port specifically geared to synchronizing file systems on
> two peer machines (rather than, e.g., geared to just backing up a file
> system).  It was really painful to do that, and it shouldn't have been.
> None of the existing tools are even vaguely adequate for that.
>
> mcl

My .02 cents worth - - - Would the ports system handle adding another level to 
its directory structure? A quick way to organize some of the 1000+ port 
categories?

-Mike






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