Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:16:00 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> To: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike@blackskyresearch.net> Cc: Glen Barber <gjb@FreeBSD.org>, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: removing CVS in Handbook Updating and Upgrading chapter Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301271412080.9759@wonkity.com> In-Reply-To: <1359319922-4118699.16248077.fr0RKpjZd021871@rs149.luxsci.com> References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301241510470.86451@wonkity.com> <alpine.GSO.1.10.1301251321400.9389@multics.mit.edu> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301251154450.5025@wonkity.com> <1359241802-3572135.75152325.fr0QN9mrI032137@rs149.luxsci.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301261808410.2537@wonkity.com> <1359270722-3962523.11114096.fr0R7BNq4003267@rs149.luxsci.com> <20130127072036.GL1423@glenbarber.us> <1359272102-5757022.21162222.fr0R7YAiH011169@rs149.luxsci.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301271232560.9759@wonkity.com> <1359319922-4118699.16248077.fr0RKpjZd021871@rs149.luxsci.com>
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2013, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > Warren, I owe you and Glen a drink for dealing with this exasperating thread. > I wouldn't continue if I didn't believe new users first installs are extremely important, Me either. Although I don't understand why new users would csup -STABLE or -CURRENT on their first installs... > On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Warren Block wrote: >> >> Say we leave CVS references in this chapter, and CVS for source goes >> away in (for example) six months. Anyone who starts using CVS in >> that time will be forced to switch. And they would be justifiably >> upset, because they were offered an option that was going away. > > I can totally agree, all *CVS* verbiage can be removed from the doc. By CVS, I mean the application itself and the special-case programs that use it, like csup and cvsup. >> My personal feeling is that continuing to suggest CVS for -STABLE or -CURRENT, even with a deprecation warning, is a disservice to those users. > > I can certainly see that point. cusp(1) has a man page, config files, etc? it's pretty self-evident to admins who want to use it. > > -- > However, the one place where people are getting tripped up, is the quick fetch required before buildworld/buildkernel: > > I see nothing but benefit leaving one line before the buildworld/makeworld dance: > # csup /usr/share/examples/standard-supfile But that's not in there now. The sections about updating source are separate from the buildworld section. And the cvsup/csup part is not one line, because it goes into details about editing the supfile. Which must be done before running that single line, because the example doesn't work as-is. > And one more line after that, > "cvsup/csup(1) has been deprecated, and will be end-of-lifed when the replacement is completed in base" Followed by "Do not use this, because it will go away permanently soon. In fact, it was kind of a mistake to mention it at all, because it's just going to cause you trouble. Stop using cvs, cvsup, and csup. They don't care about you, they're just using you. The sooner you quit, the better for everyone. Seriously, it's over, if you use CVS now you'll just have to switch to something else in a little while anyway. Pick something else. You can use svn for development versions or portsnap or tar downloads for releases. Pick anything else, we implore you. Really, stop using CVS now, right now. We implore you, stop using that thing we suggested. If we could take it back, we would. Looking back fills us with sorrow and regret. In fact, we're going to retroactively declare that we never said it, and sent you in the right direction in the first place. We're so sorry. Please forgive us." > It's a lot simpler than leading them down the SVN setup path, the state it's in today! svn has to be installed from ports... but so did cvsup, and it had large dependencies, and people still use it. svn setup is simpler than cvsup or csup--no supfile, it's just URLs. But again, those are arguments against deprecating CVS, not against removing it from the documentation. That head has crashed on the platter, the swallow has dropped the coconut, the anti-increment has impacted the impeller.
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