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Date:      Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:44:50 +0300 (MSK)
From:      "."@babolo.ru
To:        part_lion@hotmail.com (Joesh Juphland)
Cc:        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: more on jail - suitable for multi user system ?
Message-ID:  <200111301944.WAA05829@aaz.links.ru>
In-Reply-To: <F120iPXkmCJiLyNfHgI000142c0@hotmail.com> from "Joesh Juphland" at "Nov 30, 1 00:16:50 am"

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Joesh Juphland writes:
> One thing I would like to do as a hobby is start a classic multi-user unix 
> system and giving out shell accounts to whoever wants one.  Not a money 
> maker, of course, but it would be fun.
> 
> My question: does anyone have any comments on using `jail` in a public 
> environment like this - that is, instead of giving away individual shell 
> accounts, you would give away individual "jails" - basically a whole 
> seperate machine with its own IP and own root access, etc.  ?
Full jailes (that is - every jail has running sshd) requires
different IP for every jail. Big IP alias list for one
interface is needed.
I think about whole network assignment instead of
only host address for interface.
It is possible sharing same IP different ports.
I usually mount /etc into jail read only to
prevent changes in port/jail mapping at startup
and restrict local_startup="/etc/rc.d"

I have startup script that automatically
assigns IP and mounts for starting jail.

The down side of jailed shell is restrictions
for raw sockets (no ping and traceroute)
and shared memory.

> I am not asking about the commercial viability - it's just a hobby system.  
> But in terms of limiting resources (so no one user bogs down the whole 
> system) and in terms of security (nobody can turn rogue and bring down / 
> compromise the system) is this a viable option ?
Jail is not ideal but is better then with no jail.
There is another answer in list about resourses.

> Or is jail best kept to environments where the users are in-house (trusted) 
Best untrasted user is dead user :-)
best live untrasted user is jailed.

> Another way of asking this would be, was jail developed for, and best used 
> for, creating a safe area for daemons like httpd, or was it developed with 
> running many full-blown independent systems on a single machine in mind ?
I don't know developer's mind, but safe area for daemons
like pop smtpd(any kind) named ntpd (in-pair with non-jailed ntpd) so on
created by jail is good enough now.
/bin/sh and friends are evils even in jail.

> _any_ comments appreciated.
Sorry, my English is worse then my knowledge.

-- 
@BABOLO      http://links.ru/

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