Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 12:16:16 -0700 From: "K. Macy" <kmacy@freebsd.org> To: Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com> Cc: Erich Dollansky <erichsfreebsdlist@alogt.com>, Andrea Brancatelli <abrancatelli@schema31.it>, =?UTF-8?Q?Fernando_Herrero_Carr=C3=B3n?= <elferdo@gmail.com>, freebsd-stable <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Benchmarks results for Compilers on FreeBSD 11 Message-ID: <CAHM0Q_O4HwdUHZs6963XsJ5_nAXqvuPczOw4of47cSP5N74vuQ@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20160831133642.GA25574@lonesome.com> References: <20160822120215.GV22212@zxy.spb.ru> <20160823110159.GU18643@e-new.0x20.net> <20160824045558.18c86764@X220.alogt.com> <3234db29c228879cc473deec0b09568c@schema31.it> <CAMwkeZwmhqL%2BOU4kWafMOw6gCZB1N3Zxw5n-TyJ57R_toGM1Eg@mail.gmail.com> <20160826132059.63c23ee5@X220.alogt.com> <20160828060601.08ea91a8@X220.alogt.com> <CAMwkeZzeQk6tL_fG7TJdFCt_4CWPADNaHy2VP4yEs3Mm2F77MA@mail.gmail.com> <20160830074656.18bfaf05@X220.alogt.com> <CAHM0Q_Oh9%2BPzXji5t58tx6hUmM-gt_CweC%2BEGBENw23kxtzwvA@mail.gmail.com> <20160831133642.GA25574@lonesome.com>
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On Wednesday, August 31, 2016, Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com> wrote: > I'll demur just a bit on your points. > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 08:51:02PM -0700, K. Macy wrote: > > "we need a compiler to build the system" (a prebuilt package does that > > just fine), > > Well, yes, for a tier-1 machine; and one that is connected to the network. > > > I can't speak for the whole universe of users, but I think it's safe > > to say that most users are not power users who individually configure > > ports tailored to their needs. > > We've certainly tried to provide a migration path away from that, but I > don't think anyone has statistics about how far along we are. IMHO we > can't assume it's 100%, or maybe even 80%. > > > I think my experiences on Ubuntu [...] are illustrative. > > A number of years ago Ubuntu and FreeBSD had barely overlapping audiences: > end-users and developers. With all the improvements to pkg and tier-1 > packages I hope that is changing -- the goal of expanding the reach is > why I supported all the changes I saw being made. > > But for me an attraction has always been "you can build it out of the box", > even if I rarely do it (e.g. I am not working in the kernel/driver area), > > mcl > Can clang actually bootstrap from something like lcc? As far as I can tell you need a fairly advanced C++ compiler just to build that compiler in src - which already needs to be installed. It's not exactly bootstrapping from Bourne shell. So I'm not sure "it's self-hosting" is even true, not to mention that you needed a network connection to get src in the first place. Thus the whole argument strikes me as circular if not outright deceptive. -M
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