Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:33:26 +0200 From: Marek Zarychta <zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> To: christian russell <christian.baltini@gmail.com>, "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg@tristatelogic.com> Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Eliminating IPv6 (?) Message-ID: <f0bcb169-9afd-4f68-34bb-9f85f445c9bd@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> In-Reply-To: <BA89DCE6-4B64-46CC-B94C-AE16AAA5C591@gmail.com> References: <18748.1560843874@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <BA89DCE6-4B64-46CC-B94C-AE16AAA5C591@gmail.com>
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This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --y82voBVt9gqr51QdkbZu1xABDhKCgtYM6 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="BfDSwDzC7bR85rPfzkw1pWXvCEn7cc9TH"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marek Zarychta <zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> To: christian russell <christian.baltini@gmail.com>, "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg@tristatelogic.com> Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <f0bcb169-9afd-4f68-34bb-9f85f445c9bd@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> Subject: Re: Eliminating IPv6 (?) References: <18748.1560843874@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <BA89DCE6-4B64-46CC-B94C-AE16AAA5C591@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <BA89DCE6-4B64-46CC-B94C-AE16AAA5C591@gmail.com> --BfDSwDzC7bR85rPfzkw1pWXvCEn7cc9TH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US W dniu 18.06.2019 o=C2=A010:09, christian russell pisze: > My opinion is that being able to practically ignore IPv6, without opera= tional detraction, is a reasonable degree of freedom. FreeBSD isn=E2=80=99= t pushing IPv6 any more or less than any other mainstream OSes. > > Given a set number of developer hours I would prefer that IPv6 be fully= implemented and functionally "ignorable" as opposed to dev time being sp= ent allowing an essentially cosmetic opting out of IPv6 functionality. E= ven more generally I would prefer any dev time time be spent on active is= sues and new features. > >> I ask again, is this really such an unreasonable thing to hope for? > If I were allocating work-hours on FreeBSD development my answer would = be: =E2=80=9Cyup" =C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/=C2=AF > > Christian Dual stack support looks like a reasonable solution these days and works fine in 99% of network scenarios. From the other hand the ability to completely disable legacy IP should be considered as well. Some people consider IPv6 only network to be providing a sufficient degree of freedom but in 2019 we still lack DHCPv6 client in base. --=20 Marek Zarychta > >> On Jun 18, 2019, at 12:44 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.c= om> wrote: >> >> In message <d6a5d6b8-1630-3095-dd0b-22b49213176e@grosbein.net>,=20 >> Eugene Grosbein <eugen@grosbein.net> wrote: >> >>> 18.06.2019 10:10, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: >>> >>>> How can I turn off IPv6 entirely without rebuilding the kernel? >>> You cannot. GENERIC kernel specifically enables IPv6 support and you = need to >>> disable it at compile time. >>> And if you do, you better rebuild the world too using WITHOUT_INET6=3D= yes in the >>> /etc/src.conf >>> or else some utilities compiled with INET6 by default will query kern= el >>> for IPv6-specific data (like routing entries) and complain that your = kernel does=20 >>> not know about it. >>> >>> World built WITHOUT_INET6 has no such rough edges. >> OK, so I obviously expressed myself badly. Let me try again. >> >> IPv6 support is enabled in a the stock kernel. OK. Fine. But just b= ecause >> that feature is present in the kernel, that does not imply that anythi= ng in >> userland -has- to actually make any use of it at all. >> >> *Something* is doing ifconfig on my loopback (lo0) interface. What is= that >> thing and how can I get it to stop doing that? >> >> As I have already learned, the /etc/rc.firewall script also assumes bo= th the >> presence of, and the desirability of IPv6 support. And unless one edi= ts that >> file manually... which I have been effectively forced to do... there i= s no way >> to get it to simply NOT create and install multiple IPv6-related ipfw = rules, >> EVEN THOUGH in my particular situation... which is still the most comm= on case... >> those extra and entirely superfluous IPv6 ipfw filtering rules are ser= ving >> no earthly purpose whatsoever and are only cluttering up my ipfw rule = set, >> thus pointlessly making it harder for me to grok and maintain them all= =2E >> >> Clearly, if doesn't have to be this way. Some maintainers just decide= d that >> I and all other IPv4-only users should get stuck dealing with a lot of= useless, >> unnecessary and distracting IPv6 stuff, whether I like it or not, and = presumably >> for our own good. >> >> I really wish that maintainers would allow me a bit more freedom, and = show >> me the courtesy and respect to allow me to decide for myself what is a= nd what >> isn't "for my own good". >> >> I can and will most certainly get down and grovel around in the variou= s >> /etc/rc.d/ scripts and will comment out those parts that do things lik= e >> ifconfig'ing my loopback interface for IPv6, whether I like it or not.= >> But there ought to be some single /etc/rc.conf variable via which one = could >> simply select the "No, I don't want to have to deal with IPv6 at all r= ight >> now" option. >> >> Is that really an unreasonable hope, expectation, and request? >> >> I understand that the kernel will still -offer- the IPv6 support. But = if no >> -other- software on my system actually takes the kernel up on that off= er, >> then the kernel's IPv6 support becomes like the tree that falls in the= >> forrest when there is nobody around to hear it. It might as well be s= aid >> that it makes no sound, and no difference to anything at all. >> >> It is clearly not necessary for me or anyone else to have to rebuild t= he >> kernel... *and* world... just in order to get rid of what are, for the= >> majority of users here in 2019, still a bunch of utterly superfluous I= Pv6 >> "features" that (a) do not help us one iota and that (b) are all just = a >> big and pointless distraction that muddles everything and unnecessaril= y >> complicates and complexifies ordinary system maintenance tasks. >> >> IPv6 is great and I'm sure I'll be using it someday. But today is not= that >> day... not for me, and also not for one hell of a lot of other users. = The >> fact that I and others are effectively being forced to even think abou= t it, >> due to an absence of reasonable and easily accessible userland options= , is >> actually a big turn-off, and leaves a bad taste in the mouth which wil= l >> be remembered, in future, at every mention of IPv6. I hope that all o= f the >> IPv6 evanglists will take a moment to stop and think about that, and t= hat >> they'll stop effectively forcing those of us who don't need it to both= use >> IPv6 and to think about it, whether we like it or not, and before we a= re ready, >> willing, and able to do so. >> >> >> Regards, >> rfg >> >> >> P.S. In case I have again failed to be clear, I am proposing a new /e= tc/rc.conf >> option. Something simple and intutive like: >> >> ipv6=3D"NO" >> >> That in turn should be checked -and- respected by all relevant /etc/rc= ,d/ >> scripts. >> >> I ask again, is this really such an unreasonable thing to hope for? >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-net-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-net-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --BfDSwDzC7bR85rPfzkw1pWXvCEn7cc9TH-- --y82voBVt9gqr51QdkbZu1xABDhKCgtYM6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEMOqvKm6wKvS1/ZeCdZ/s//1SjSwFAl0Iod0ACgkQdZ/s//1S jSwZvwf/agEmz2iZbmOJQGdC5jiR5/Gd3VXDj4XI2XtHXcc1btqowrmaPB4gEREn 6lMihXMMM3p4FWoO6W87AuoNcxiX3vnkdGre/K+m19tuPLybDryXl11C7FZOSXrS 0TYgPapR+uyhBhs3j4MLxOn2HLgWpwOFXfOUc/gb2LKTIFGySEllgbbv5iQL+tFC DVzwLyHGBp7anwK3DDWYICSyyxpoDR6onYU0sZeuGO/UN9FruJRQW3b8WoDKgAyh /FtSPSbE83R3Ut3c+LiF3nDBiPkqzxVmYHCYSBLAiLfZmKMw40mFSXAsWeWIrL1L bpaxFwRIf9kHu//dVGVafelanAWWDg== =qhLx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --y82voBVt9gqr51QdkbZu1xABDhKCgtYM6--
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