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Date:      Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:30:51 +0200
From:      j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To:        freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: ATT Unix for Windows !
Message-ID:  <19970826083051.FR52594@uriah.heep.sax.de>
In-Reply-To: <19970825224258.55928@grendel.IAEhv.nl>; from Peter Korsten on Aug 25, 1997 22:42:58 %2B0200
References:  <199708251245.WAA23142@oznet11.ozemail.com.au> <19970825204932.12036@grendel.IAEhv.nl> <34020362.7DB1@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> <19970825224258.55928@grendel.IAEhv.nl>

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As Peter Korsten wrote:

> Well, at least they have something visual. Do you know of any handy
> tool to patch a program together that happens to run with FreeBSD?
> That runs with X too? For the same price as VC++?
> 
> If you write simple stdin/stdout programs (a so called Console
> Application in Visual C++), it's far easier to use. A really good
> editor, a really good debugger, and all of it integrated. Not to
> mention the difference between a makefile with tons of '-switches',
> compared to a project workspace.

Well, i once was fond of Borland's IDE as well, back in 1990.  Later
on, when i've already been programming for Unix for a couple of years,
xwpe was released, and it promised to feature the Borland environment
in an X11 application.  I tried it.  I've been shocked.  I couldn't
use this kind of boring IDE anymore.

People mentioned Emacs, and that's also mostly my ``IDE''.  xf does it
for Tk (although is has its flaws, so i'm coupling it with Emacs
frequently).  I wish there were something freely available for Xaw.

As for Makefiles: i even use them for text processing, to formulate
dependencies for picture inclusion, image conversion, etc.  So they
are a comfort to me. :)  The non-existance of Makefiles would be one
of the first reasons for me to *not* use something like a Borland IDE,
or M$ `Visual' stuff anymore.  Once you've learned to value the
flexibility of make(1), you can hardly give it up again.

Even my attempt to use Applixware for text processing (since the
output was required to be Win-compatible) ended up in me writing an
applix-mode.el instead. :-)  (Note that i had to learn Elisp for this
step, something i didn't know much of before.)  This way, i could type
the ApplixWord document in Emacs, which was more convenient to me.  No
WYSIWING flickering, no terribly small letters (or zooming to a degree
where you have to pan all the time), comfortable search&replace,
unlimited `undo', the fingers could remain on the keyboard and didn't
need to get off for a mouse e.g. in order to insert the next
paragraph's headline.


Of course, this is all my very personal opinion, but i'm sure quite a
number of people feel the same.  This might explain to the VC++ etc.
users why there is so little `resonance' to IDE projects in a Unix
world.  Once you got used to the Unix way, you don't miss the Visual
stuff.  (Once you would be forced to return to that Visual stuff,
after you've been used to the Unix way, i'm sure i would *hate* it.)

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)



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