Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:33:52 +0000 From: Jens Rehsack <rehsack@liwing.de> To: Joe Marcus Clarke <marcus@FreeBSD.org> Cc: FreeBSD GNOME Users <gnome@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: The GNOME meta-port Message-ID: <3FA69180.3060003@liwing.de> In-Reply-To: <1067879387.817.17.camel@gyros> References: <1067879387.817.17.camel@gyros>
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Joe Marcus Clarke wrote:
> I wanted to respond to all the mails on this thread with why gnome@ has
> done what they've done with the GNOME meta-ports.
>
> First, and someone already touched on this issue, what is a meta-port?
> A meta-port is something aimed at newbies to get them up and running
> with a "something" quickly, out-of-the-box. As these newbies become
> more acquainted with FreeBSD, they begin to say, "you know, I don't
> really need package X. Let me uninstall the meta-port, and package X."
> As they begin to really get the feel of make(1) and the ports system,
> they may decide, "I'm building this suite a lot, but all I need are
> packages X, Y, and Z. Let me build a meta-port just for those." Or,
> "Let me simply install X, Y, and Z."
>
> Let's look at a fair example. I don't think it's fair to compare
> x11/gnome2 to lang/php4 since php4 is a real, working port, and gnome2
> is simply a meta-port stub. Also, XFree86, and quakeforge aren't fair
> comparisons since they only have a few dependencies. I want to look at
> misc/instant-workstation. This meta-port has 124 dependencies (compared
> to gnome2's 122), and only one WITH_/WITHOUT_ knob for ghostscript.
> This meta-port was designed by Greg Lehey to install all the ports he
> thought makes a good instant workstation. It's quite KDE-centric. But
> wait, I want my workstation to have GNOME. Greg, can you add a knob for
> GNOME? Greg will come back and say, "don't install this port. It's not
> for you." He's right. As an advanced user, I know what I want on my
> workstation. I want my set of GNOME 2 bits, gaim, rhythmbox, galeon,
> etc. This meta-port simply represents Greg's opinion, where as gnome2
> represents the GNOME desktop as envisioned by gnome.org.
Ok, I can follow you so far, but:
I don't think the only instant-workstation could be a kde one.
Ok, I was slightly advanced to FreeBSD when I decided to install it
on my desktop, but eg. people coming from OS/2 will feel more like
home on a GNOME desktop. So an instant-gnome-workstation and a move
of instant-workstation to instant-kde-workstation is not impossible
(and would make sense, maybe). But it's on another discussion.
And greg's opinion to what's belonging to a meta-port or not
is very interesting. He didn't update his instant-server, even
squid-2.5 became the STABLE-release.
What I'm trying to say: meta-ports are fine and great for easy use,
but the users should have the chance to request changes to the
default. In the case of x11/gnome2 they had to ask the gnome
developers, 'cause the defauls came from there. But if it's a
freebsd own meta-port (as instant-workstation is), the freebsd users
should have a chance to request for changes. So, x11/gnome2 and
misc/instant-workstation aren't fair comparable.
> My point is that meta-ports are geared more toward newbies. Advanced
> users can bypass the meta-port, and install only the bits they want.
> Really advanced users (or admins doing bulk installations) can build
> their own meta-ports to easy the task of reinstallation.
Maybe a message should be added to such meta-ports which says:
This is a default meta-port which is for generic use only.
If you want to customize your workstation, you should create
your own one by copying this meta-port into
ports/local/your-own-meta-port and modify whatever you want.
Ok, not in this words, but maybe this could really make sense to
a) avoid future discussions like this (because the submitter
disn't search for the right words in the archives), and
b) it's just an instruction for users which will become
more advanced of what to do.
> Marcus
Regards,
Jens
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