Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:06:01 +0200 From: Jens Rehsack <rehsack@liwing.de> To: Mark Murray <mark@grondar.za> Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Administrivia: Discussion - Making this list subscriber-only Message-ID: <3D6BBF89.F3A028@liwing.de> References: <3D6B8535.D3E1DB4@liwing.de> <200208271536.g7RFail5021355@grimreaper.grondar.org>
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Mark Murray wrote:
>
> > > I got an overwhelmingly positive (off-list, thanks!) response to my
> > > complaint that this list's signal-to-noise ratio was terrible.
> >
> > For that you should really use a spam filter.
>
> Spam is a small part of the problem. A much larger part is off-topic
> chatter.
>
> > > Comments? Suggestions? (Keep it brief and focussed, folks!)
> >
> > Personally I like the solution on PHP mailing lists. Everybody can
> > write mail to a list without having to subscribe. But the sending
> > first ever mail to that list you must! allow validating your address
> > by responding an auth request like when subscribing to fbsd lists.
>
> How will that stop off-topic chatter?
Never. But neither your way does. I'm subscribed and I answer to your
off-topic post. So we both are the off-topic chatters you want stop.
Sure?
> > This allows to post validated senders only but keeps freedom to all
> > people who wants post.
>
> _Less_ freedom is actually needed. It is precisely that freedom which
> has allowed the list to become a question-and-answer (or HOWTO) list
> that has dropped the signal value so badly.
Pardon, but IMHO this list is read by "security experts". So if I have
a security related question, I ask here. I'm a good developer, I have
many knowledge 'bout secure programming and know to protect my box
enough for stupids. But one the one hand there're many people who have
much less knowledge to security than me and on the other hand a lot
of guru's to me.
What I want to say with that: What is a stupid question to me or not
security related ot sth. else may important to others with other kind
of thoughts. What a sort of guys we'll be if we judge 'bout the security
relate of a posting?
So I cannot follow your way to close this list. If you want have a private
list, why you don't found your own one?
> > I do not like restricted use. The end doesn't justifies the means!
>
> Depends on the "end". Here I mean a dramatic drop in newbie questions
Who decides what's a newbie question an what's not? You? Me? Santa Claus?
And everyone started on a small ground... - that's the way.
> and a consequent increase in the technical content/discussion ratio. I
> also hope to attract back the security gurus, and thus further improve
> the signal content.
This will not work. Let me explain what I believe what such a list is for:
I think, some people found a list for security related discussions to make
it much easier to help each other. Over the month and years to original
guru's are getting better and better while the quality of the list in
in everyone's mouth. So some more guys and girls are subscribing to participate
one every hint and a lot of stressed people are just asking sth. and discuss
just a small (personal preferred) problem, an idea, sth. else.
And some of the guru's get bored, but many new guru candidates subscribed,
helped, talked and - sometimes - chatted 'bout security (I remember an obfuscation
discusion not long ago).
So in my opinion this list is good just as is. If you are much more expirienced
and wiser so you have two choices. Go away to a wisdom / guru list or stay (what
we all prefer) and let us have part of your wisdom.
I do not want defend idiots, but - please - there is a difference between newbie
(what I could be in the eyes of many) and idiots / torks.
Kind regards
Jens
> M
> --
> o Mark Murray
> \_
> O.\_ Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn
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